099 | Bridging the Clinical & Ceremonial: The Doula Model of Care as an Alternative Approach to Psychedelic Facilitation w/ Paige West
“This doula work allows you to be an emotional caregiver, an educator, somebody who is community oriented, bringing other people in, holding indigenous communities up while offering your perspective.”
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We’re diving into a topic that hasn’t been publicly explored in the psychedelic space yet: the innovative intersection of psychedelic facilitation and the doula model of care. Paije Alexandra West is bringing this forward for us today as an international retreat host, experienced psychedelic facilitator, and trained doula. Paije shares her thoughts on how the principles of doula care can be seamlessly integrated into psychedelic work to create compassionate, supportive, and transformative experiences.
Paije educates us on the guiding principles of the doula model, emphasizing the importance of advocacy, mindful presence, and compassionate support in psychedelic facilitation. She discusses the advantages this model offers to Western medicine providers, particularly around how this approach allows Westerners to serve (some) psychedelic medicines without appropriating cultures that don’t belong to us. Paije also shares her personal journey, balancing her roles as a mother and a facilitator, and offers invaluable advice for those considering a path in psychedelic facilitation. Join us as we uncover the potential of the doula model to revolutionize the way we approach psychedelic healing and support.
Topics Covered:
The unexpected synergy between Iboga and 5-MeO-DMT
The intersection between psychedelics and doula care
The guiding principles of the doula model of care
The Doula Model of Care as an approach to working with psychedelics
The advantages of using a doula model for Western medicine providers
Navigating consensual touch during psychedelic experiences
What the path to becoming a doula looks like
What it takes to hold a neutral space for others
Balancing psychedelic facilitation with motherhood
Words of wisdom for those considering psychedelic facilitation
LISTEN
Things Mentioned in This Episode
Show Links:
1:1 Coaching with Lana
Where to find Dr. Anne Wagner
About Paije Alexandra West:
Paije Alexandra West is an international retreat host, psychedelic guide and mentor having supported thousands of individuals through ceremony, sacred medicine and trainings over the last decade.
She is the founder of two international companies that reflect her values and experience. ETÉREO is her new experiential company and awaited retreat center set on 24 acres of desert land in Baja California Sur, Mexico. ALTAR is an intentional microdosing brand specializing in education, resources and supplements.
Paije is an experienced medicine facilitator, having worked with 5-MeO-DMT, psilocybin and other medicines for over a decade. Her unique approach combines clinical protocols with earth-based ceremonial practices, informed by trainings in therapeutic environments, various teachers over many years and her recent initiation and rites of passage with the Bwiti people of Gabon, Africa.
Paije's approach to her work with psychedelics is rooted in the principles of the doula model of care, focusing on compassionate support, advocacy and mindful presence. Her passion lies in creating safe and nurturing spaces where her clients can grow and cross new thresholds. As a trauma-informed practitioner, Paije brings a deep understanding of safety, respect, and empathy to her work with clients.
Looking for a professional coach to support you on your psychedelic path?
Look no further! Along with being the host of the Modern Psychedelics Podcast, Lana is a 3x certified professional coach who works with people on the psychedelic path.
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Lana Pribic: [00:00:00] Welcome to the podcast. It's been like such a long time coming that I've been wanting to have you on the show.
Pajie Alexandra West: Oh, I'm so happy to be here. It's such an honor to be here. I'm really excited. And yeah, girl, we're like Instagram besties. We always chat. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: You're definitely like the person I talk to the most on Instagram out of everyone in my community.
Pajie Alexandra West: oh, that's so sweet. Yeah. Yeah. It's just nice to be friendly and engage with other people, other women in the community, especially.
Lana Pribic: Yeah I'm really excited to just have a conversation with you today because I don't know. I feel like with you and I, we've had a relationship now for a year and a half
probably since I did Iboga even before that. But I remember we really connected after that and I don't know. I just get the sense of like mutual respect and admiration of each other both of us.
So yeah, I'm just excited to pick your brain a little bit.
Pajie Alexandra West: Women [00:01:00] supporting women!
Lana Pribic: Yes.
Pajie Alexandra West: there can't be enough of that, for sure.
Lana Pribic: Yeah.
So beautiful. So yeah. Introduce yourself to the audience. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Pajie Alexandra West: Yeah, I am Paige Alexandra West, and I am a psychedelic doula. I have two companies, one that's focused on intentional microdosing, and the other that is focused on retreat. So I've been in the community for a decade and serve various medicines, primarily 5 MeO DMT, psilocybin, and I also am in training and in a deep relationship with the medicine of Iboga.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Before we get into the topic of today's conversation, I want to ask you how you see The interconnection or like the synergy. How do you see the synergy [00:02:00] between Iboga and 5 MeO? Because I don't know, I feel
like they work so beautifully together and like the progression of Iboga to 5 MeO just was everything for me.
So yeah, how do
you see them as someone who has both been in process with them and also is facilitating these medicines?
Pajie Alexandra West: Yeah, they are certainly cohesive, right? And they're these polar opposites in some ways. Of course, in the like logistical perspective, as far as the duration. So of course the duration of 5 MEO is quite short while the duration of Iboga is very long. I find that Iboga is such a powerful.
Medicine of the mind, right? It's a mind purge. It's this magnification of Everything that we've moved through. It really teaches us how to be a human living on [00:03:00] earth and connecting, of course, with our ancestors, our spiritual world and five MEO is, deeply expansive and a powerful nervous system reset.
They're so complimentary, my first orientation to those medicines being used in conjunction is an ibogaine clinics. So I've served five MEO in Ibogaine clinics for the last decade on and off. And it's very potent to see people come out of an ibogaine experience, potentially even a detox and see You know, this shift after they come out of the five of me, Oh many people talk about how it ties the whole experience together in a way.
I do find with Iboga, which of course is the root bark and the total alkaloid we want to wait a lot longer than within the same container. But they are [00:04:00] friendly medicines and they work together really beautifully.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, there's such a like yin and yang, a perfect
balance of the complete opposite energies that
together create the whole picture.
Pajie Alexandra West: It's like you go so deep into your roots, your root system. Of course, Iboga is a root medicine. And then you expand out into all that is in this cosmic consciousness. So it's like full spectrum medicine.
Lana Pribic: Yeah.
Oh my gosh, that's so good. I have
Pajie Alexandra West: Mm
Lana Pribic: Goosebumps. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, that totally relates. So let's talk about the doula model of care. This is the reason I wanted to have you on the podcast. This is going to be such an important conversation. You were previously known as the psychedelic doula. You're introducing yourself as a psychedelic doula.
So can you tell us a little bit about what the heck psychedelics and the doula model of care have to do with each other?
Pajie Alexandra West: Absolutely. So I started out as a [00:05:00] traditional doula in the birth community, and I was full spectrum, meaning I supported families through birth, postpartum, termination, loss, really the full spectrum of pregnancy and beyond. And I sought out medicine for my own healing, my own internal mental health challenges.
Western modalities were not supporting me. The reasons many people come to medicine. And I dove right in and I started working with my first teacher. And as I was witnessing her, everything that she was doing as far as the care she was providing. Felt like doula work to me. It felt so reminiscent. So I saw these echoes in the very beginning right away.
And at that time, again, I was still a birth doula and it's amazing. My, my, one of my first teachers, Maria Chavez, she's a Peruvian medicine woman. Now she is a doula. So we [00:06:00] switched places, which is really cute. Yeah. The principles, the guiding principles of the doula model of care are non medical support, empowerment, non judgmental support, team members, holistic care, and a family centered approach.
And so if we look at this from a psychedelic perspective, I have been An underground practitioner for seven or eight years now that I live in Baja, Mexico, I'm a bit more above ground but that being said, I'm still a non medical provider. I'm not a clinical provider. Non judgmental support is a very important Value when we're working with psychedelics, we don't want to impose our belief systems onto someone else.
We of course want to provide that nonjudgmental support team members, of course, bringing in resources, bringing in referrals, having an [00:07:00] integration specialist, having a body worker, breath work, all of these other tools, you know, really shouldn't be about one person. It should be this community centered approach, which when we're looking at birth work, we can say family centered approach.
But when I look at psychedelic work, I exchanged family for community. So community centered approach. So that is how I've brought in those principles into my work with psychedelics.
Lana Pribic: I love that. Yeah, I can really see how those principles would be useful for psychedelics, especially, yeah, the non judgment, the holistic care community. Yeah, that's really good. So can you tell us a little bit about What is the doula model of care? Like, how does that approach work, maybe in contrast to a more shamanic approach or a more clinical approach to working with psychedelics?
Pajie Alexandra West: So I'm really [00:08:00] passionate about this idea and this perspective of honoring the doula model of care in other types of containers, which we're already seeing birth doulas. Now we have death doulas, which have existed for a long time, but it's certainly much more commonplace. We hear about death doulas. Now we hear about all types of doulas.
And so The way that I look at it, doulas sort of bridge this gap between clinical, maybe medical and ceremonial and emotional caregiving. And for instance, if, I am working in a hospital, I'm bringing in essentially ceremony into the space, based on the birthing family's wishes.
What do you want here to help them? Keep you comfortable and bring in intention, right? Being an advocate for those families and talking to the nurses and saying, can I light a few candles? Can we have [00:09:00] music? Can she walk around? Can they walk around? And really advocacy is also a really big part of doula work.
So really being an advocate, but not offering medical advice, which is something I also do in my work with psychedelics. And the opposite of that would be a home birth, right? But, maybe they have a midwife. Maybe we have Pitocin or other medical interventions on site in case we need them.
So we're creating a really safe container. And so I take that Exact model and I bring it into my work with psychedelics. So maybe someone Would prefer a more earth based approach ceremonial approach shamanic approach How can we still create that container of safety? We always are you know require screening.
We make sure that they have aftercare and integration if we're unable to provide it long term, so creating those sort of safety nets, just like you would do at a home birth, right? And so [00:10:00] in a more clinical environment, for instance, in my work in Ibogaine clinics, oftentimes Ibogaine clinics are like plant medicine rehab.
They're really detox focused, many of them don't know anything about Bwiti or the indigenous perspective and history of iboga and ibogaine. And so I can come in and offer some ceremony, some intention and bring that into that type of container. That bridging the clinical and the ceremonial is really important to me.
Lana Pribic: I love the way that, yeah. I love the picture that, that paints like bridging the, it's like the ancient ways and the new ways and
creating a container. for what people are looking for. Like a lot of people are looking for that. They don't maybe want to do a fully clinical experience and they maybe don't want to do a fully shamanic experience. I'm curious it sounds like you could apply the principles to [00:11:00] any
Container. But are there certain medicines that this like you would use this doula model of care for because Stephen Austin at Enfold who are also facilitating 5 MEO. They also Austin did a doula training and they very much use that approach and they call themselves doulas when they're in ceremony with someone for 5 MEO and I was reminded of you.
I don't know, I'm just drawing connections here. Is it a 5 MEO thing or would you use it
with other
Pajie Alexandra West: it certainly started as a five in the O thing. I'm a mama, I have two children and I was a doula. I started out, when my son, my older son was really young and it was hard to run off to birth. And as I began my training and my observation of medicine, primarily five MEO I was like, wow, now I can schedule my birth.
It's this is [00:12:00] amazing. We are working with a bit of an energetic rebirth when it comes to 5meo. So I think that, of course, this model is incredibly conducive for 5meo, but I do find that, So what doula work to me really is about is thresholds. It's thresholds of the human experience and what the threshold of motherhood is or parenthood is you are essentially leaving behind an identity and saying, stepping into an entirely new identity.
And this happens with medicine work of all kinds of all substances of all journeys, right? Whether it includes medicine or not. I think that the doula model of care and doula work speaks to thresholds. So if we're talking about the death threshold, if we're talking about the birth thresholds and Now, my line of work is all of the little [00:13:00] births that happen in between.
So I do find those energetic rebirths happen with all medicine. Of course, they all function differently and they have their different purposes. But 5 MEO, the way that it unfolds reminds me so much of birth and so many people, have the experience of feeling like maybe they're at death's door or, having an NDE, people who've had a near death experience report very similar sensations to the 5 MEO experience.
So I find it all to be connected.
Lana Pribic: that, that makes a lot of sense. I have a question about like, a clarifying question about doula care, because I'm actually not very informed or educated about doula care. So is being a doula, you said there's different there's birth doulas, death doulas, psychedelic doulas. What was, like, the original doula for.[00:14:00]
Pajie Alexandra West: The original doula was a birth doula. And the word doula is derived from a Greek word meaning female servant. So it was a woman who served other women during birth, postpartum, etc. So doula, birth doulas were the original. They were the OG doulas. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: as you're speaking about this, my mind is just saying like, yes, yes, yes, this makes so much sense. And I remember we were chatting a little bit about this in the DMs on Instagram, about how for people who want to facilitate medicine experiences for other people, but don't necessarily really want to walk the line of appropriating a culture, or, even if you're trained, sometimes it's uncomfortable for people to use like methods that are not, from their own culture.
So can you talk to us a little bit about the [00:15:00] advantages that this has for people who want to facilitate but they're lost about what approach to take and why it's attractive for, Westerners to maybe think about using this model?
Pajie Alexandra West: Absolutely, I think it's really important and, it's tricky territory if we're working with medicines that have very specific lineages, and there are closed, traditions, right? That you do require initiation and additional training to serve. Some people choose to ignore that, of course. Um, and, And there are medicines like 5 MeO that do not have a lineage.
That's my perspective. I know there's a lot of debate around that, but they don't have a specific lineage that we know of. I'm not saying that, you know, there's, you know, There's not the unknown out there. Um, For instance, psilocybin is something that, can be grown all over the world. You know, I really think that the [00:16:00] nature of psilocybin is meant to be shared with the mycelium network.
And so there are some medicines, that would require a guide, but maybe you don't want to appropriate. Maybe you don't want to go and call yourself a shaman, and I think that stepping into This doula work allows you to be an emotional caregiver, an educator, somebody who is community oriented, bringing other people in holding indigenous communities up while offering your perspective.
I really like to be a connector, so it allows us opportunity to connect people. Just like when I was a birth doula, maybe someone who was Wanted acupuncture to, you know, stimulate labor or for another reason. I would never pretend to be an acupuncturist, right? So I can call someone and actually when you're trained to [00:17:00] be a doula, a big part of it is building that referral list.
And so I think there's a huge advantage, you know, you can kind of stay in your lane as a Westerner. I want to be a helper. Helpers are great. There's nothing wrong with helping, right? And it really allows us to, to stay on the path without tipping into some trick territory tricky territory.
Lana Pribic: Thank you for that.
Pajie Alexandra West: hmm.
Lana Pribic: I'm also curious about
Pajie Alexandra West: hmm.
Lana Pribic: Touch. During a psychedelic experience. This is like such a hot topic. I personally am for it. Whenever I'm working with a facilitator and they ask me if it's okay to have consensual touch, it's always okay with me. And I know that, even some trainings, some places say like absolutely no touch is allowed. So with the doula model of care how do we [00:18:00] navigate something like consensual touch and what kind of guidelines are there for a psychedelic experience with that?
Pajie Alexandra West: So when you are being trained as a birth doula, they say that you are able to provide comfort touch with consent but it has to be non medical support. So let's say you also have a certification in massage or you're a body worker. You can't also provide body work to a person while you are their doula, right?
And giving in the birth experience, maybe not postpartum. So there's certainly a precedence for touch in the Original traditional doula model, but it's primarily to protect everyone from offering any kind of medical support, right? So that's where the line is drawn, where you're an emotional caregiver.
And of course in psychedelic work, I would say from a clinical perspective, there's probably no touch. Whereas if you're [00:19:00] tipping into a more ceremonial support um, There may be touch. My perspective on that is I think screening is really important for, you know, it's from the very beginning.
So we have our forms. We really look at the way people answer things. We look at their history. We are in conversation and communication with them. We have the understanding and awareness. That consent can change at any moment. And when someone's in an expanded state of consciousness they are very vulnerable.
And so, um, I think sparingly, and if you think that it's a no, it's a no. That's what I teach my 12 year old son, you know, like from the very beginning. If you even think maybe, then we pull back. And then of course, neutral places, hand, heart, head, that's it.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. beautiful.
Yeah. What would you, how would you like to see the doula model of care incorporated more [00:20:00] into the broader psychedelic
space in regards to facilitation?
Pajie Alexandra West: So, we are, We are in a big transformation when it comes to psychedelics. Things are being legalized, things are being decriminalized. These substances are coming into, coming out of counterculture and coming out from the underground. And so I think that there's already a precedence in clinical and medical containers, whether we're working with a doctor and a midwife, there's already a precedence for bringing a doula in.
Same thing as on the death side of the spectrum, right? So you have hospice care, you have end of life nurses, And then you bring in a death doula, right? And they're there to support the family, maybe they're making phone calls to a person's cell phone to turn it off, after they've died because the family is mourning and grieving, I mean, there are so many small, beautiful offerings that a [00:21:00] doula can bring that you maybe don't even think about until it's right there in front of you, and so I think that. Bringing this model into the industry really could be incredibly beneficial. Well, you know, We're still honoring all of this research and the science and these medical practitioners and therapists. But we're also really looking to. underground practitioners, indigenous people, those with lineage uh, you know, with medicine and upholding them and bringing them in just as we would a doula.
There's already a precedence. So I think that we can really imprint it in to the world of psychedelics quite easily.
Lana Pribic: It makes a lot of sense to me.
Just listening to you talk about it, and also having experienced a container that was very much informed by these principles of doula care. So you got your training as a birth doula.[00:22:00]
Pajie Alexandra West: So I did both birth, postpartum, and termination, so full spectrum doula. I had all of those certifications in San Francisco and Portland in the U. S. And when I had my first intentional medicine experience, I met my first One of my first teachers and I started working with her quite closely. First of course, deepening my relationship with the medicine and then observing and, ongoing and then supporting and then flying free.
And it's a long journey, but yeah that's where I started. And it is the foundation of my work. I always refer back to it. I refer back to it. I will call myself a psychedelic doula throughout my career, and I'm 10 plus years and it really works for me. It feels super aligned and it's an honor to do this work for sure.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. I love that. [00:23:00] How when you do something new in life, like you take a certification or you go to school for something and then you might not be doing that thing anymore, but it informs those next steps for you. It's just so beautiful how life works out that way. Okay. So is it like a, Is there a certification?
Is it
something that is licensed or
Pajie Alexandra West: So there's there's DONA, which is like a U. S. or maybe it is international. I think it could be international. It's an association for doulas. So you do a certification. It's a course that's several months, I believe. To begin that process. And then so you take a course and then you apply to be like a registered doula in the donor network.
And that requires attending a certain amount of births and working alongside doula groups or midwives. So it's a process, [00:24:00] it's several years, it's not like a quick weekend course.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, it sounds like a something that you would definitely want to be sure that you would want to
do it. Is there anything out there like that for like psychedelic specific doula care that you've seen?
Pajie Alexandra West: No, I have trained several apprentices who are now serving five MEO and psilocybin. So I offer one on one mentorship and support, and I have a foundations course, but I don't know of anyone else that is using this particular model. So, um, Yeah, I, maybe I'll continue to grow that and build it
Lana Pribic: Yeah. I definitely see a need for that. Definitely. Do you think that doing like a death doula certification would prepare someone to apply that to their psychedelic work? Or would you recommend people do the birth
Pajie Alexandra West: Oh, I think death is [00:25:00] is just the same. You know, It's the same but different, right? It's just the other end. So I think it would absolutely prepare someone for sure. It's very similar in the way that there are clinical components, right? There's a medical component that you are in that type of environment.
I learned so much about Being a facilitator through being a doula, I remember the first time I was in the OR, the operating room, one of my mamas had to get an emergency cesarean and I've never been in an operating room. I was like very early on in my work and being in an operating room is pretty intense, and this is so embarrassing to talk about, but I think it's just real.
Again, it was one of my first births and I did the thing that you're not supposed to do, which is not take care of myself. I hadn't slept all night. I was up feeling like I had to do it all. I wasn't eating properly. All of the things that you would need to know to facilitate a psychedelic [00:26:00] experience, that self care, right?
And I'm talking like baseline root self care of sleep and food and water, and we were in the operating room and I fainted. I know I was all the nurses were like the doula fainted, totally teasing me. I was so mortified, but hey, I learned that lesson real quick, and that's how it is.
You have to do you have to do your own work, whether that's self care or your spiritual work, your interpersonal work, all of that stuff, your inner work yeah, it taught me so much. Taught me so much.
Lana Pribic: my gosh, I can't even imagine being present for a birth, ah, or
giving birth in that,
Pajie Alexandra West: Yeah. And the other thing too is that, you don't want to impose your biases on other people. It's so important and it's tricky, especially in the world of spirituality and psychedelics, right? It's very tricky territory. There's no, there's, it's a little bit of the wild west out there.
There's not a [00:27:00] lot of regulation. There's no regulation. Let's be real, and You really have to be careful about imposing those things. Just because I had home births with my children, I can't take a client and judge them because they want. To have a medicated birth in a hospital and I can't try to convince them Otherwise, it's about providing resources and education and advocating for what they want You know just because I would prefer a more ceremonial experience, you know in the jungle somewhere Doesn't mean that when someone comes to me, I can impose that on That upon them and say that's better, I can send them to a psychedelic therapist or I can say come to one of my retreats.
We have a psychedelic therapist on site and we offer, internal family systems workshops and we offer, somatic experiencing. It does that feel like the right fit, and Or send them along their way to someone who would be, it's really just not about me. It's not about the doula, it's [00:28:00] about advocating for the people that come to you because it's an honor to serve.
Lana Pribic: Yeah.
Yeah. And back to the story in the E. R. room, right?
Servants have to serve themselves first, or they can't serve others. What does like the advocacy piece look like for you? Um,
Pajie Alexandra West: Both.
Lana Pribic: I meant for them,
but Yeah.
you could touch on both.
Pajie Alexandra West: Yeah. Advocating for another person, without offering medical advice can be really tricky. For instance, in my intentional microdosing offering, a lot of people come to us, currently taking SSRIs, currently taking just contraindicated medications or, wanting to change from, One thing to another and switch to microdosing and, it's tricky and what I can say and offer is all of the education about, what it means to [00:29:00] microdose to work with medicine at sub perceptual levels and Ask them, do you have a doctor that you can talk to this about?
Is there someone in your life you can talk to about? I can't offer you medical advice, but I can certainly support you as you As you decide to step down from your medication on your own, by your own accord. If that's something that you want to do, I'm an advocate for you. I'm happy to support, but I can't tell you to get off of your medication.
So there's a really fine line, and I think people really want to often tell others what to do. I'm sure you experienced that in all of your training as as a coach, right? There's just a lot of nuance in supporting people.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, so much. I think that's the hardest part about
supporting people is It's like completely removing yourself
from their world
and what's going on for them. And it just takes so much [00:30:00] energy and presence and self
care and like being sharp with yourself to be able to provide that level. of care, whether you're a coach or a facilitator
or a therapist. I really, yeah, I really respect how much you are able to, yeah, remove yourself from what other people need and also just have level head about
This is just one option like my retreat in my way is one option Like there are other options that I am more than happy to point you towards it's not about you know signing a client or
Signing someone up for the retreat.
It's about like truly giving people what? They need and advocating for them to advocate for themselves and to make
their own decisions. So yeah, just [00:31:00] Yeah respect for that
Pajie Alexandra West: I think the best route is to really be as neutral as possible, and that requires you to do your inner work. Anybody that trains with me. My first prerequisite is What is your process? What are you doing? Do you have a therapist? Do you have a coach? Do you have a mentor? Are there other people in your life?
Obviously I'm happy to offer mentorship through this particular lens, the human experience is very multifaceted and we need a lot of support and to be facilitators in particular, you really have to try to stay as neutral as possible. I always say, like the kids are saying, say less, say less, don't get in there as much as you think you should.
It's really about listening and, understanding that projection is always going to happen and to try to really keep it, [00:32:00] reel it in,
Lana Pribic: it's so true. No matter how much work you do, like projection always happens. I
think the difference is that the more work you do, you're just more aware of it and you can catch it and you don't have to act from that place of projection,
which is completely different than if you're unconsciously projecting
like
Different stories.
Pajie Alexandra West: I've learned a lot about, staying in your back body energetically, right? So you're staying really with yourself rather than allowing your emotional empathy channels to grab towards another person or Be this porous like it's all happening to me and now I'm like taking it in and I don't realize that I'm taking in their Stuff and it's not even mine.
I tend to be on the grabbier side. I'm like, how can I fix this? How can I help here? Like I really like that. And so I really have to work to stay in my back body and allow my empathy channels while I'm working to go up and down from [00:33:00] source and, and the earth. Then from here to there. Right? Because when we're
Lana Pribic: I totally get that.
Pajie Alexandra West: Right? When we're in relationship with other people, in our interpersonal relationships, we're like this all day. With our partners, with our kids, with our family. But we can't be like that with clients. We got to be up and down and in our back body and right there with ourselves and really clear.
Lana Pribic: Yeah.
Yeah. So for people listening when she said like the, we're like this all day with our partners, She's pointing back and forth like the energy is going back and forth between people. I Totally understand what you're saying
and part of it I feel like is Like this is just coming from my work as a coach not facilitation, obviously But part of it is just like the perception that everything truly is neutral So when people come and they like have all these problems and all these things are going wrong It's like it's like If we buy into the story and see it as a problem and see it as wrong, then that's going to interfere with our ability to hold space for them because like everything truly is [00:34:00] neutral. Like
the universe doesn't decide that something is better or worse or like good or bad.
So I don't know. I feel like that's such an like that neutrality piece, which was that one of the doula pillars non judgment, I
Pajie Alexandra West: Non judgment would be that. Mmhmm.
Lana Pribic: yeah. So key. Yeah, I want to hear a little bit more about your training.
So you did the doula certifications and you are training um, under like a Bweaty
Pajie Alexandra West: I am.
Lana Pribic: teacher, a couple Bwedi teachers for
Pajie Alexandra West: A few. Yes. And so,
Lana Pribic: bit about that.
Pajie Alexandra West: sure. So I began my relationship with the spirit of Iboga 11 years ago through Ibogaine. And I, It absolutely transformed my life. It is truly like a line in the sand. And I stayed in relationship with that medicine primarily through Ibogaine clinics and then other community [00:35:00] members connecting and sharing and working in Ibogaine clinics is intense.
We offer Ibogaine aftercare for people that are out of post acute detox And. So my relationship with Iboga and the spirit of Iboga, which of course exists within Ibogaine, has been, a long chunk of time. And then I had my first ceremonial Iboga experience five years ago. And Once again, like a doorway was opened and I was like, okay, this is my medicine.
I think that's one of the reasons we started to connect more because I think that Iboga has such a reputation and there is a story around it that's being told and to Just connect with another young woman who was like, yes, like really feeling this medicine and the potency and the power and the beauty, not just some of the confronting aspects of the medicine was, was just really cool.
Lana Pribic: Yeah.
Pajie Alexandra West: Yeah, and then let's [00:36:00] see, in two years ago I went to have my initiation in Gabon. And I spent about three weeks there with the Bwiti deep in the Congo. We went to a couple of different villages and it was so intense. And then I have been training with a few different people in the Iboga community.
Primarily Mark Howard of Iboga Soul. I highly recommend his work. They are providers in Canada, but they also travel internationally. So we have offered retreats here in Baja where I live. And yeah I'm spreading my wings and learning from as many people as possible in this community.
Just like the actual duration of the medicine journey, I think that as the Bwiti say, malembe, which means slow, slow. I'm taking my time with it, but I've been a facilitator of medicine for a really long time, and so I'm ready to have Iboga be part of my offerings and I'm, [00:37:00] I'm, I'm right there.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, I would love to come sit with Mark sometime. I've just heard such amazing things and yeah, as I feel like, yeah, we are both like very picky
and just, you know, if like selective is
the right word, but just very intentional about the facilitators that We work with and yeah, I've just heard amazing.
He was also in the, that movie uh,
Dosed, right? Yeah. Yeah. So cool. Yeah. Yeah. I have a feeling I'll definitely be meeting him one
day and hopefully coming to visit you at some point. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. So with the, let's see here. I, the thing that I'm so impressed about you is That you're a mother of two,
Pajie Alexandra West: I am. I'm a mama. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: mama and you are doing medicine work. I want to talk a little bit about that [00:38:00] because from what I have gathered, being a facilitator and I don't just mean serving medicine. Truly committing your life
purpose to serving medicine and going all the way with it and doing it at a high level and like really holding people through some serious transformational work.
I'm not
talking about like, you know, trip sitting like truly being a
facilitator at a high level,
which you appear to be I feel I'm like dabbling between wanting to step into that myself. And yeah, what was the word for slow? Malembe
with it, right? Being so slow with it. And I feel like I I have the story that I have to choose between being a mother or being a servant
Pajie Alexandra West: Mm mm-Hmm.
Lana Pribic: Because I see a lot of facilitators who don't have children and it's kind of like, you know, their mission is their child, their clients are their [00:39:00] children. So I'm just like so impressed with you that you're able to do that. So talk to us a little bit about that, how you make it happen. How do you manage it?
Pajie Alexandra West: Oh my gosh. I, it is intense girlfriend. Like it is not for the faint of heart. Motherhood is. It's the most profound medicine I've ever taken. So it's what I love about motherhood and medicine work is that, if you're really paying attention in motherhood, it's all a mirror and they are your greatest teachers.
And so my children, they really gifted me this life. They gifted me the ability to do this. They chose me and my husband, Fletcher. And I think that they honestly ultimately led us to this path. My son, you know, I mean, my history and mine and my husband's history, it, we were in some darkness, he [00:40:00] suffered from substance use disorder and a very long term opioid addiction and found ibogaine and it changed our lives and.
It's been an absolute transformation and I found myself in my early twenties, unexpectedly pregnant. And my husband was an active addiction. I was exploring and experimenting in a pretty heavy duty way. I don't personally identify as a person who has, dealt with addiction and or I guess as an addict, which I think is a tricky term anyway, like I think there are substance use issues and there's a quite a spectrum.
Yeah, it's quite a spectrum.
Lana Pribic: It's
like a, it's a whole process. Yeah. I was learning about it in the being true to you
training, like the whole spectrum of like, you know,
Pajie Alexandra West: Mm hmm.
Lana Pribic: Exploration all the way into recovery. Yeah.
Pajie Alexandra West: Absolutely. There's use, misuse, [00:41:00] abuse, dependency, chaotic use, all of it. And and at the same time, whether it's a substance or not, I think there's, It's safe to say we're all a little addicted to something, right?
Maybe it's social media, maybe it's work, maybe it's food, maybe it's TV, Netflix, whatever. So anyway it was a deep, dark initiation of its own. I was 24 when I found out I was pregnant, which I think for coastal California is quite young, there are other parts of the world where it's not, but.
In my community, it was like people treated me like a teen mom, you know, I was like, okay, I'm young, but not that young. It, I feel that he brought me to this medicine, I feel he brought me here and, as far as the logistical part of managing it all, you just do it, like you really just do it.
The way to talk about this, right? There's no night. There's no trying. There's just doing there's if it's a 99 percent it's a zero, it's you're either doing it or you're not. And I remember having a [00:42:00] friend who had twins and I was like, how do you do it? And that's what she said to me. She was like, you just do it.
You have two of them, you know? Um, and I think that, The medicine has taught me about really mothering myself and doula ing myself, and I cannot cut corners. I cannot, my movement is a non negotiable. My alone time, non negotiable and far and few between, but I have it and it would not be possible without the support of my husband.
Like he is. Beautiful father a present father. He is a parent when he is with his children. He is not babysitting his children He is parenting his children like a dad, and he is just an Unbelievable person of support and so, you know, whether you have a partner in that way or not community, right?
We can't mother You know In a [00:43:00] vacuum. We can't heal in a vacuum. It wasn't meant to be in isolation. So Mmm,
Lana Pribic: In love, in awe, connected with one another. I haven't had a chance to meet him yet, but yeah, just, hats off to you both for taking the darkness and the struggles and using that as like a launching pad to your own healing and transformation and then taking that even a step further to help others to do the same,
Pajie Alexandra West: thank you. Thank you. Yeah, he's a wonderful man. I'm so lucky And yeah, I mean my home birth it was the first Kind of threshold experience that I was like, I'm gonna be in my body for this one , I'm here, I'm gonna do this. And so that changed everything. It brought me to medicine work,
Lana Pribic: beautiful. Beautiful. I'm definitely feeling very expanded and inspired listening to this, even though I'm deathly afraid of giving birth,
but you [00:44:00] know,
Pajie Alexandra West: We'll talk, well if it, yeah. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: convo.
Pajie Alexandra West: Mm-Hmm?
Lana Pribic: There's a lot of people out there who want to become facilitators. And I always feel a little bit like doing a, like anti pitch for that only because not even
because I'm a facilitator because I've experienced such amazing facilitation.
And been able to witness the level of sacrifice
that it takes to really do this at a high level. And to do it with such integrity, safety, care and to really honestly get people results,
right? Like To get people result. I mean, You can't just give people psychedelics and expect it to
cure them like you.
There's so much
more that goes into a transformational experience. So yeah, can you talk to us a little bit about the sacrifices involved in that and [00:45:00] what you would say to people who are considering facilitating?
Pajie Alexandra West: I, I feel the same way as you do, and as far as everything you just expressed I think take it really slow. I think that that message that you received from the medicine is an invitation to keep exploring your consciousness, right? So
take your time, find people that you really connect with and be in community and again, just, I don't know what else to say, but take it slow and continue to do your own inner work first and foremost, while you're facilitating. I mean, I am ongoing education. I mean, you know, the, The courses, the certifications, you know, I'm trauma informed.
I'm somatic experiencing certified. I'm, you know, internal family systems, workshops, the center for optimal living psychedelics for substance [00:46:00] uses, it just goes on and on. Like it's not. And,
Lana Pribic: but that's truly what it takes. That's truly what it takes because you need to be equipped to deal with
so many different things that come up.
Yeah,
Pajie Alexandra West: And I, and, also there's the sort of certification chaser archetype that we hear about, where it's just like thing after thing, and, you know, if that's you, you just like doula work, you have to start attending births, and attending a birth, is with others, it's community oriented.
So observe, take a long time observing other facilitators, take a really long time doing that sit and watch quietly, because if you are. wanting to move really quickly into facilitation. You also really have to look at your intentions. Would I really even be equipped after a couple of ceremonies to go in and serve and be of service, or can I be a [00:47:00] helper?
Be a helper. Take it slow. Continuing education, do your inner work. Um, Foundations. You have to have a very strong and solid foundation. Because the cracks will be there and they will show their faces in a big way, and yeah, the sacrifices. It's. It's sometimes long and grueling and sleepless and intense and not pretty, purge buckets and intense things people are sharing with you that they're, trusting you to hold it's a nervous system activation.
It's an overwhelm. It's big work, I do think that it does have to be a calling, but not after one ceremony or two .
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Yeah. I've been sitting with it for like four years
Pajie Alexandra West: Yeah.
Lana Pribic: honestly, I'm still not sure. I'm still not like a hundred percent. This is like the
Next thing. Yeah. Yeah, it is big work, big work,
and I'm so grateful for the [00:48:00] people out there that are doing it at this calibre and
able to offer a transformational experience for people. Yeah. Ooh. I want to talk a little bit about your Your companies that you're
creating. I just love like everything that you're doing like the
whole Not like obviously you have the foundations and like the ethics and the approach. I love all that But also everything you're building is so beautiful
Pajie Alexandra West: Oh, . Thank you.
Lana Pribic: As a taurus moon
Who's just,
Oh my God.
Okay. This makes so much sense. of course. Yeah. Yeah. So we love, so for people listening, Taurus moons, like just our, the way I see it is our emotional wellbeing depends on like how much beauty we are surrounded
by.
Pajie Alexandra West: Mm-Hmm.
Lana Pribic: Would you agree? Like,
how would you describe that?
Pajie Alexandra West: Yeah. It's aesthetics, it's luxury. It's the sensory experience. It's, you know,
Lana Pribic: the little details. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. I love [00:49:00] this.
So Yeah.
tell us about so there's altar and I'm going to butcher the name because it's in Spanish. Atterio? Atterio? Oh!
Pajie Alexandra West: Erio and Atter. Terrio is fine too. Erio is a center that will be a retreat and event center for experiences, retreats workshops. teachings, ideally I would love to like capture data there and conduct research. We have 24 acres of desert land here in Baja California Sur near Todos Santos.
And we are in the process of, creating a master plan and a beautiful space for people to come. And, this really, It really still is even rooted in this doula model of care. As far as community, I want to give back to the community. This will be a white label space, so it won't [00:50:00] just be my retreats.
It will be open to other facilitators of, all different modalities to come in and host there. And it's really important to me because, I have been doing this for 10 plus years. And. You don't want to hustle for retreats like you don't want to feel like, Oh, I got to fill that spot.
I've got to do this for your livelihood. It's really tricky territory. If this is your career and it's your full time gig, right? You don't, It's tricky. And I don't feel like I'm in that position. It feels very in alignment, but at the same time, when we're talking about self care and taking care of myself, I'm not trying to do three retreats a month.
It's too much. It's really too much. And so, um, I've really put in my time and my work. And so I'm ready to have an offering for the community where. People and the greater [00:51:00] community, the international community where people can come and host. So it's a big vision. It's a big vision.
Ideally we'd like to open a second location in Europe somewhere. And we are fundraising. So I also have my business woman hat on, which is really fun. I feel like I've been in business school for the last three years, like building a pitch deck and, pitching to investors and cap tables and all these like terms that I didn't even know a thing about.
So I have an entrepreneurial spirit. And I think it's its own spiritual experience because it's our relationship with abundance and scarcity and all of that
So yeah, that's our space and yeah, we're in our seed round. We're fundraising and we're getting close. We're going to break ground in the third quarter of the year.
So in the fall sometime.
Lana Pribic: Okay. So any investors listening,
Pajie Alexandra West: Yeah.
Lana Pribic: that's
amazing. So when are you anticipating that it will be ready?
Pajie Alexandra West: If we raise [00:52:00] everything that we're trying to raise, we won't phase it out. So we can probably get it built in about 18 months. It will have 13 bungalows and beautiful, stunning ceremony spaces and a big main house and a pool and a spa and it's gonna be beautiful.
Lana Pribic: Yeah.
And for people who are listening that are like, that sounds so frivolous. Like, why
do I need all that stuff to, experience a transformational experience? I will say that having just attended a very like elevated retreat It honestly makes a difference because you can feel the intentionality of the space
and like the like the design and how well thought out it is it all plays such a role in feeling safe and held in the space.
So I'm just so excited about this for you. It's
going to be so amazing.
Pajie Alexandra West: Thank you so much for saying that because I do think that I can do both. I can go to Gabon and [00:53:00] sleep in the temple in the dirt and I can have a really nice, beautiful retreat center, and I'll just one last thing is that we are doing land ceremonies.
So we have a base camp with a cool glamping tent and we are. Spending time being in relationship with the land. So we are stewards of this land. Our architects are incredibly intentional. It will be off grid, eco-friendly. That's also important to us. So we are in relationship with this land.
We are not just coming in and like building this big beautiful place. With zero intention. So we're spending time out there. We're doing really cool ceremonies out there where we're with the land and by the fire, and
Lana Pribic: Oh, beautiful. So you're building a relationship with the land. Yeah. So where are you
currently doing your retreats? If you have 5MEO or Mushroom? Because you do the Iboga with Mark at Iboga Soul, and then you have your own clients for 5MEO, Mushroom.
So where does that happen?
Pajie Alexandra West: So we rent to various places in Baja. The community here is so [00:54:00] wonderful. It's very sort of wellness, well being oriented. Medicine is very accepted here. We just use other venues and other spaces for the time being. Yeah. And Mark does the same thing too when he's traveling.
So they don't have a center in Canada, but they travel and do the same thing.
Lana Pribic: Cool. yeah. I'm pretty sure he's rented out the place where I like first started my ayahuasca journeys. So yeah, it's a small community.
And then what about alter the intentional
microdosing company?
Pajie Alexandra West: Yeah. So this, all of this used to live under my former brand Third Eye Doula, and it was starting to get very full of so many offerings. And so after we switched focus from, Sort of me being the singular third eye doula, we're scaling, we're expanding. So now our intentional microdosing offering lives underneath Alter.
And we have, we really focus on education, resources and the [00:55:00] supplements themselves. So we have tinctures, we have gummies, capsules all the things to support you on your microdosing journey. And yeah, we really want to provide a safe transformational experience for people that is really rooted in again, doula model of care, education, community, nonjudgmental support, advocacy, all of those things, so we infuse all of our offerings with those values.
Lana Pribic: Beautiful.
Yeah. And it's also beautifully crafted. So lovely. Yeah. no, I love there's just so many There's so many parallels between you and I like not just the Taurus moon, but yeah.
No, I get it like wearing the entrepreneurial hat while walking this like medicine path and just like creating your own identity for yourself based on like things that you're actually interested in rather than like we were just talking about this with the personal style and clothing thing and just you know doing you and putting it all together and that is you So I love that[00:56:00]
Pajie Alexandra West: Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. I love that about you too. You're like out here doing you girl. It's good. Yeah. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: This has just been so lovely. I'm just smiling so big from talking to you. People, if people are watching on YouTube.
So is there anything else that you feel called to share or touch on before we let you go?
Pajie Alexandra West: I don't think so. I think you can find me at all the social handles and all of those things. And I wish everyone well on their journey and stay true to yourself and be authentic and, just keep doing you.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, amazing. And
can you tell people like some websites and handles that
they can find you at?
Pajie Alexandra West: You can find everything about me and my companies at pagealexandra.
com and then Eteri Obaha is our Instagram handle and then alter with six underscores and pagealexandrawest on Instagram. So [00:57:00] it's pretty easy to find me. Yeah, it's like a long line.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, and
then Paige, yeah, and then Paige is spelt with a J,
not a G. Yeah,
Pajie Alexandra West: Paige with a J.
Lana Pribic: Thank you so much.
I'm so thrilled about this convo.
Pajie Alexandra West: Me too. Thank you so much for having me, Lana.
Lana Pribic: You're welcome. Thanks for listening, everyone. Catch you in the next one.
