111 | Beyond Mental Health: The Surprising Potential of Microdosing Mushrooms w/ Kayse Gehret
“More people are reaching a point where they can no longer fake it—whether it’s their job, relationship, or life situation. They’re feeling an undeniable urge to make real changes, not just for mental health, but for deeper spiritual growth and to move away from synthetic medications. ”
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In this episode, Lana interviews Kayse Gehret, a microdosing guide with over 30 years of experience in the healing arts, to explore the transformative potential of microdosing mushrooms. Kayse shares her journey into microdosing, highlighting how her work has evolved from a personal practice to founding the Microdosing for Healing community. Together, they discuss how microdosing offers subtle yet profound healing, why it's often a better starting point than macrodosing, and how group microdosing amplifies the entire experience.
Throughout the conversation, Kayse explains the wide range of reasons people turn to microdosing—spanning beyond mental health to include spiritual development, relationship enhancement, and even physical healing. The two also delve into managing expectations on a microdosing journey, the critical role of intuition and energy, and how Kayse’s deep connection with psilocybin-containing mushrooms has shaped her work. If you’re curious about the potential of microdosing and its broader applications, this episode offers rich insights into its power and practice.
Topics Covered:
Kayse's 30 years of experience in the healing arts that led her to focus on microdosing.
Why healing should be a core part of everyone’s life.
The unique benefits of microdosing compared to macrodosing.
How group microdosing amplifies the experience.
Non-mental health reasons people are turning to microdosing.
Conditions that show positive responses to microdosing.
How focusing too much on mental processing can block emotional healing.
Energy and intuition as a tool for a microdosing practitioner.
Managing expectations and projections on a microdosing journey
The energy of psilocybin containing mushrooms
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LISTEN
Things Mentioned in This Episode
Show Links:
Where to find Keyse Gehret
About Kayse Gehret:
Kayse Gehret is one of the most highly regarded, sought-after guides for the Medicine of the Moment: Microdosing Earth Medicine practice. Founded in 2020 and grounded in a nearly three-decade career in the healing arts, the Microdosing for Healing platform, program and community has served over 900+ diverse individuals around the globe.
In addition to founding Microdosing for Healing and the Microdosing for Healing Podcast, Kayse guides the Microdosing Mastermind - an exclusive mastermind for wellness professionals incorporating microdosing into their professional practices.
Looking for a professional coach to support you on your psychedelic path?
Look no further! Along with being the host of the Modern Psychedelics Podcast, Lana is a 3x certified professional coach who works with people on the psychedelic path.
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111 - Kayse Gehret
[00:00:00]
Lana Pribic: Hello and welcome back everyone. I'm here with Kayse Gehret micro dosing maven. I'm going to call you. We haven't had a conversation about micro dosing in forever on the podcast. So this is going to be a real treat for the listeners. Yes. So Kayse, welcome. Please just introduce yourself. Anything that feels relevant to share.
Kayse Gehret: Thank you. Thank you for having me. And hi, everybody. Yeah, my name is Kayse Gehret, and I am the founder of micro dosing for healing. We are a community now international community as of 2024. We founded in November of 2020, offering micro dosing group programs and have since expanded into a membership community, a podcast micro dosing for healing podcast and a professional mentorship program.
Lana Pribic: Amazing. What brought you into this work?
Kayse Gehret: Oh, gosh. Luck, chance, serendipity, and destiny, I think all mixed together. I [00:01:00] began microdosing personally, and I've been in the healing arts for many years. Heading into 2020, I had just opened our fourth healing art studio in Northern California. So I had been immersed in the healing arts for I think I'm going into my 29th year now.
And we were doing meditation, contemplative practices, body work, sound healing, yoga, all the things. But I always kept my microdosing work to the side from my studios. And when our studios were shut down in March of 2020, extremely abruptly, By May, I was like, we can't just do this Zoom thing sustainably for much longer.
What can I do under the constraints we were under? In California, we were closed forever. And what can I do from home that is still healing and of service? And I sat with my guide in May of that year. And what came through was to create [00:02:00] a microdosing framework and program for people to teach people.
what I had learned through experience. And so I created the program that summer, launched it that fall. And since then we've had, yeah, almost a thousand people at this point through the pro that original program.
Lana Pribic: Wow, that's crazy. So what I want to say, that's crazy that it's a thousand people. I, that's a great thing to keep track of because it really puts a number on like how many people have been impacted. I want to just like ground this conversation in because I noticed you use the word healing a lot and I think it's in one of your programs and I just want to like drop in with you to see what does that mean to you?
What does that word mean to you and how do you define it?
Kayse Gehret: I love that you, thank you for asking this. It's in everything I do. And it's always been in everything I do. Even before I really knew why, and I feel like I came into my fully into my why just this year which is interesting. So healing, I think [00:03:00] now, especially is foundational to everything. For us to go forward as a society, we need to make healing central in our individual lives more than anything else we do.
I feel like looking back, a lot, and a lot of my colleagues who've been in the healing arts for very many years say this too, it feels like all the work we have done up until now has been preparing. for now. And so it's really, I feel like our culture and our society is so open and so hungry for healing in a way that we have not experienced in our lifetime before.
So that's why healing is all over all my things. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, totally. So how do you define it? What does it mean to you to heal? What is that process for you?
Kayse Gehret: I think it's so many things, it depends on the individual person, but I think fundamentally it's stepping back into your [00:04:00] wholeness, into your potential. I believe we all have the innate potential to come into ourselves, our healing. And it's kind of our soul, to me, our soul and our spirit, who, what we were meant to be, what we were here to do, before all the world came in
Lana Pribic: Yeah,
Kayse Gehret: and got in the way.
Lana Pribic: that's a very psychedelically informed answer. I feel like that is what the medicines just continue to teach us over and over again that it's all inside of us and that we have so many of these inner resources. I love that you said that you feel like you've just landed into your why this year. I feel the same for me.
I'm like, wow you know, like purpose and mission is something that. We spend so much time thinking about, or at least I don't know. And it feels like it was literally like as recent as maybe this week that it felt like it like really dropped in and everything around, like the work that I'm doing as a coach and with psychedelics and it all just came together.
And I was [00:05:00] like, Oh my God, there it is. So exciting. What is your, why, how do you understand that to me now?
Kayse Gehret: I love that. Thank you for that reflection. I had chills running up and down my spine in reflection of you sharing that. Yeah, I absolutely What is my why? Oh, again so many things. I think like a lot of people who come into this work, it was through my own personal healing and experience. I was a really sensitive kid.
I was really intuitive as a kid looking back, and I lost my father very young. I was seven years old. He committed suicide, and he was one of my soul people in this lifetime, and I spent most of my childhood searching and seeking, and I got very interested in psychology, I got very interested in religion and understanding human consciousness, and I thought I wanted to be a doctor.
For very many years, and I studied pre [00:06:00] med, and I did all the things and all the internships, and then I was called to move to California, move across the country, and I listened. And shortly thereafter, I discovered Esalen Institute. And as
Lana Pribic: Love
Kayse Gehret: I went there, yes, it's, there's so many people have the stories where they went to Esalen and their life completely changed.
Yes. I was one of those people and discovered bodywork and I was just really fascinated and drawn. It felt really natural and I thought I'd do it as a hobby. And as soon as I kind of, that world opened up to me and that quote unquote alternative healing world opened up to me. I fully embraced it and completely went down that path.
And I studied everything from somatics to Reiki to hypnotherapy to polarity throughout my twenties, just kept learning and growing and worked on thousands and thousands [00:07:00] of bodies and spirits and souls over those years. And now in hindsight, I realized I was very much preparing for the work that I do today.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. It all comes together at one point and it's so beautiful. And I don't know if you've experienced this, but like sometimes things that you don't even expect. Coming back and like having value to you in some way. They like re show up. Did you experience that?
Kayse Gehret: Oh, yeah. Almost daily.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Yeah. Laughs.
Kayse Gehret: Absolutely. Yep.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about microdosing.
You're the woman for this conversation, I guess. Yeah, it's been so long since I've talked to someone about micro dosing and like I have my own practice with Kanna, but it's a little less structured. It's more like intuitive. It sounds like you work with people in a very like structured way.
So let's start here. [00:08:00] Differentiate micro dosing versus macro dosing to us. in terms of like, why would someone go to one over the other? And what does microdosing have to offer people versus macrodosing?
Kayse Gehret: Oh, good questions. So it's evolved a lot. So from the time I started working with people in 2020, I remember hitting it was right around after about three or 400 people were through some of the patterns. Yeah. became very clear. And so the way I work with people has absolutely evolved as I have seen how people, the pace of people, why some people move through their process really quickly while other people, it takes a few months for them to really connect with the medicine.
So our protocols and practices have evolved over time. And I like to hold the work now where there's enough structure protocol and consistency to hold people and allow them the safety [00:09:00] And to relax in their nervous system and their spirit, but also have enough fluidity and enough customization so that people can really spread out and, and have the kind of experience that they need.
So I start with a protocol. at the beginning because I feel like most people really thrive with some structure. I liken it to meditation practice often. So when you're first learning to meditate, if you do it relatively at the same time every day for the same amount of time, you make the commitment.
To do it and make it special and similar day to day one, it's easier to track your results and measure and differentiate what is the medicine and what are some other factors in my life. Also, it helps you develop a practice and a discipline and a routine that ultimately just becomes who you are. Just like meditation, like after you've meditated every day for years and years and years, you don't have to sit [00:10:00] on your cushion every day.
You're just kind of. in that place, you can get yourself to that state. I've heard you speak, Kanna is very similar where it's adaptogenic. Everybody has their unique experience. And then at some point you're going to feel it's so connected to you that you don't need to physically microdose anymore.
You can just do it intuitively. And when you need it. Yeah.
Oh, and I wanted to answer the macro versus micro. So now I have a lot of people who are pure beginners starting out and then I have a lot of people coming in who have some higher dose. experience behind them, which I love.
So I think ultimately my dream of dreams is that micro dosing, macro dosing, and mini dosing is all part of someone's arc of experience. People will start in their own time, in their own way. If someone is a pure beginner, I think for 99 percent of people, it really benefits them to start with micro dosing to Have a [00:11:00] subtle, gentle introduction to the medicine, no matter which medicine you're using, and have that relationship evolve and deepen over time versus kind of having the experience of having so much content so quickly to work with, particularly with mushrooms compared to other medicines.
You know, the mushrooms are going to take you where they want you to go, right? And so particularly when working with mushrooms, I think it deeply benefits people to start slow and low and have a community of support and reflection and mirroring and presencing with them to work through the experience.
So that's what I love. And I've really seen people who come in and who have no interest in a journey. They're like me no. And then six months later, they're ready, right? So it's it takes getting them connected to the medicine and developing trust in the medicine as well as themselves to move in.
As far as the dosing, [00:12:00] our community tends to dose, I think, on the lower side of what we're A lot of people would think microdosing is. So I have just, I always have tended to work with a lot of entrepreneurs, artists, creative people who are already pretty bendy and flexible people. They're just kind of all, they're already pretty neuroplastic folks.
So it's surprising when I tell people where people. practice at I, I'd rather they start slower and then work up as needed. And a lot of people start very low and that's exactly spot on for them.
Lana Pribic: What's very low for you for mushrooms?
Kayse Gehret: So people will start, I say the majority of our community starts about 50 milligrams that we work with psilocybin, most commonly golden teachers.
But some people will start, especially people who have a long history of contemplative practice. I noticed, I've also worked with a lot of psychics. They can, they start [00:13:00] 10, 20 milligrams sometimes. And then other people need a much, much higher dose. Like we've had people who are more in the 250, 300, 350 range.
Typically it's because of long term SSRI blunting. People who've been on SSRIs for 20 plus years really have to go that high very frequently to receive any gifts.
Lana Pribic: I always think that it's so interesting with psychedelics, how dosing is based on Yeah. your mind and like your mind's tolerance rather than a physical thing. I find that so fascinating, especially , I'm starting to step into the role of facilitating experiences for people. And yeah, learning about dosing is so interesting because it really isn't about like how much you weigh.
It's about, yeah. How bendy, how open, how kind of like connected you are at your baseline and like people who are a little bit more open just need. a much gentler, softer [00:14:00] dose than those who aren't. So yeah it's interesting, isn't it?
Kayse Gehret: 100%.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. . So yeah, talk to us a little bit about the micro versus macro dosing and , who and when would benefit from each?
Kayse Gehret: Yeah, I think as I should, I think the majority of people benefit by starting off slowly and working up to a journey. What's very naturally happened, which has been so fascinating to kind of watch it happen. After in 2021, after people were microdosing about six months, they just all very naturally We're like, we want to try a mini dose and go higher.
And so we did some experiments. We were like, well, let's do one gram together over a weekend. We were all still locked down at home. So we, a lot of them did one gram together and then came together the next day and shared that experience. And we were really surprised how many people journeyed on just a gram.
And I think a lot of that had to do [00:15:00] with they had spent, I mean, not a lot was going on, so they were very focused on their practice, they were doing all kinds of other lifestyle complementary practices, so it was really profound, and I was like, there's something to this, and so over time, since that time, a lot of people very naturally start mini dosing, they work up, they kind of gauge what it feels like at 300, what it feels like at 500, what it feels like at 750 and note these changes and growth.
And then I think, I love it because I think it really helps make the ceremonial part of the journey so special to the person. When it's something you look forward to and you have spent six months, nine months planning for it's beautiful and I think it's such a beautiful way to show reverence and honor.
To the medicine, and I think to a lot of times people we've had very few people who have had a lot of the quote unquote [00:16:00] bad trip experiences when they have laid a foundation of microdosing because I think they've already worked through a lot of the layers of fear. A lot of the threads of shadow work of things that can kind of come out of left field and the feelings that can kind of come out of left field and catch you off guard in a high dose ceremony.
If you haven't already worked with the medicine already.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Yeah. Perfectly said. Throughout your years of experience with micro dosing, what are some of those foundational pillars that, you know, set one up for a positive, impactful micro dosing experience?
Kayse Gehret: I think the group experience. It took me so by surprise how powerful the group experience was. I had never, I had done one on one work for so long. And yes, we had group classes at my studio, but I'd never done group work. It blew me away and continues to blow me away. It's it just amplifies everything and people, [00:17:00] I think, move.
I started to recognize people I had worked with one on one in a group. They would move through their experience six weeks, what it would take six months. in a one on one experience. And so it's this, yeah, it's kind of like being in a stadium all together or dancing with a group of people. It just amplifies everything.
And I think the reflection, connecting the dots faster, the beauty of speaking things out, your experience, a lot of times people, you can see people speaking out and then understanding because so much of it is. understanding the medicines always talking to us like even people who are like not much is happening.
I don't think this is working. It's like sometimes what's happening is the medicine speaking to you in its way. And so sometimes it's the feeling that is evoked is the medicine. What is having the feeling itself about the medicine [00:18:00] and the experience is the healing in the moment and sometimes people, once they get it, they're like, Oh, and there's nothing more you have to do.
There's so, so many, many pillars. I think what's beautiful is so many people when they start, even within the first week or two. they're like, I've done this before. There's something about this that's really familiar. So it's more of a remembering for a lot of people and they're surprised at how familiar it is.
The two biggest things we've seen in the first few weeks tend to be cognitive healing. We have so many incredible cases of. Nervous system healing and cognitive sharpening and uplift in the, just in the first few weeks. And also nature stories and animal stories, like people just, nature coming alive, the connection to animals coming alive.
Psilocybin, in my experience, is a very [00:19:00] relational thing. medicine. So other medicines I think are more concentrated and focus on relationship to self. I think psilocybin is that, but it also, it is and so many of the ways that I see psilocybin speak through people is through other and through relationship and our real world experiences with children, with animals, with plants, with other people.
Yeah.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, I love that. That totally makes sense that you see mushrooms as relational because yeah, the mycelium network and the connectivity and all of that. You mentioned the power of the circle, right? The power of being in community and doing this work in the group. What makes that so powerful?
What makes that so different than one on one work?
Kayse Gehret: I don't, to be honest, I don't know. I mean, they have studied it and they have statistically proven it out. The Power of Eight book, I can't remember the author top of my head, but I've read, I read it a long time ago, and then once we started the groups I reread it because I was like, oh, they have, [00:20:00] they were right.
Let me reread that. And it is, it's all about this magic number where the group is not too big, not too small, and. I have really witnessed to not, with group work, not overly meddle. You know, if you are oftentimes a guide or a facilitator, , you want the best experience for your clients that you possibly can.
And one of the lessons for me that I've received from Spirit is just to set the container, set the intention, and then let people come in and let the mycelial work happen and do its thing and over again we're going to be doing our 30th group soon here and every single group has been so unique, has such distinct themes, they all have things in common and so each has its own It's the little pockets in a forest.
You know, they're all, they all connect and they're all very much meant to be and they're meant to meet. So we have some wild stories [00:21:00] too of serendipities of people within the group that were meant to know each other. But I don't, there's just something magical and innate and I think mushrooms, you know, they want us to be together.
Lana Pribic: Yeah.
Kayse Gehret: they're happiest when we're together.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I feel like in groups, it's like you're triggered a lot more and you are confronted with so many different mirrors of yourself and I feel like that process of just being constantly reflected in other people is going to give you so much more material to work with.
Right. Right. And that could definitely accelerate that process of healing and transformation. Yeah when people are coming into your micro dosing groups, what intentions do they usually have? Like, why are people coming to you? Why are people doing this?
Kayse Gehret: I love , this question. So four years ago, it was very, almost nearly [00:22:00] exclusively mental health. is what I saw on the intake form. It was COVID. I'm kind of going a little crazy, being locked down, having a lot of conflict in family, which is natural at the time. And a lot of people said they were leaning on a lot of unhealthy habits.
Because of the mental strain. So depression, anxiety, and then some bad habits that they wanted to curb if they could. Now, I see, I still see a lot of mental health, but I see a much greater range, which I'm so loving seeing. So I'll see things with lots of relationship just personal development, wanting to improve their relationships, wanting to I see a lot of people lately, a lot of people lately, more than ever this year, who cannot fake it anymore.
They're like, I've been in a relationship, I've been in this [00:23:00] job, I've been living in this place for so long, and I have known it's not right for so long. And for some reason this is it. It's the, Circumstances conspire to make it so intolerable and uncomfortable, they're needing and ready to make a big change by choice in their lives.
A lot of people I see coming to practice for that. I see increasingly people coming for spiritual development, which is so beautiful. So my own. I have always been intuitive and with all of my healing practices, I sharpen that often unintentionally over the course of my career, but it wasn't until I started microdosing and then particularly when I moved geographies, that connection to spirit really blew open to a whole new level.
So all of people in our community have gotten to be part of that and witness that. [00:24:00] And so it's a lot of people are very curious to get in touch with their angels, get in touch with their guides, be able to feel closer to lost loved ones. And so it's been really beautiful to see so many people. moving outside of the mental health narratives and really embracing medicine practices for so many other beautiful things.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, that's definitely interesting in terms of like where we're at as a society with um, you know, people coming into your micro dosing groups Not just psychedelics and medicine and like the applications of it, but also like just to wear like a pulse check on the collective in terms of okay where are we at?
What are people really going through right now? What's important? What are the reasons that people are investing their time and energy and money into doing this work? Yeah.
Kayse Gehret: Yep. Yep. Another thing I've seen this year more than any other year is wanting to move off of synthetic medications. So we've had a lot of people wanting to taper off [00:25:00] antidepressants. We've had a lot of people. on sleeping pills. Like I had no idea. So many, particularly men over 40 need to drug themselves to sleep at night.
It's so epidemic. And so we've had a lot of people who have been on trazodone and Ambien for years and years. So I'm really seeing that. And so there's something to that, as you said, when you reflect on that as a culture, what's going on.
Lana Pribic: So are you, do you have a tapering protocol in place or I guess, where along the journey of getting off of medications do you take people in? How do you work with that?
Kayse Gehret: work as a collective tribe. Yeah, it's, we have I have a beautiful network of colleagues who have specialized expertise and all these things. So we have psychedelic pharmacists who can support people and consult people on analyzing which medication they're on because each one is going to [00:26:00] be different.
The dosage is each one is going to be different. How long you have been on it is hugely impactful. And so the pharmacist can advise on a tapering protocol with the antidepressant. And then they'll simultaneously be in our microdosing program to help support. There's so much information out there now, and there's a lot of misinformation out there now, that we also, too, have a lot of people coming into our community just to kind of cut to the chase.
They're like, there's so much information out there and I don't know what is right because some says I have to taper off SSRIs before I can journey or microdose, others not. And so it's very helpful and been very supportive for people to know that microdosing can actually support them emotionally and help with some of the side effects that they would otherwise experience.
Lana Pribic: Okay, yeah, that's good. Yeah, I had Ben on. He's great.
Okay, so people can be kind of coming in at different stages. They can want to start [00:27:00] tapering or already be tapering.
Yeah.
Kayse Gehret: Yes.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, I mean, I think people who are on antidepressants and anti anxiety meds and, you know, sleeping pills they're just learning about more options that are available to them. There's just so much more psychedelic literacy out there now that people are learning more. There's more success stories that are being shared and I, yeah, I feel like it, it makes perfect sense that people are coming to you for that.
Yeah. Yeah.
Kayse Gehret: Yeah.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, so, are there like certain conditions or states of being that seem to respond well to micro dosing versus some that don't?
Kayse Gehret: Good question. Yes. As I mentioned, people with nervous system conditions. Remarkable headaches, migraine, well, I shouldn't say that the, it's anything that, the [00:28:00] underlying cause is nervous system dysregulation, which is so many things, and we don't tr, we don't call it that, we call it addiction, or we call it OCD or we call it eating disorders.
But in so many cases, we heal the nervous system, we heal the symptoms, and so nervous system. healing has been absolutely remarkable. So people presenting that yes, PMDD and extreme PMS, reproductive issues. We've also seen incredible, absolutely incredible women who have PMDD where they have been basically not functional for part of the month, every month, for decades, suddenly are able to have their, like can barely tell the difference.
Between the phases for the first time, and that's within six weeks. So those have been remarkable. The ones that have been less so that are kind of sometimes yes, [00:29:00] sometimes no, are a lot of times we're seeing people who have long tail COVID or COVID vaccine injury. symptoms where it triggered an old autoimmune disorder.
A lot of people who had used, you know, had Lyme and remission, Epstein Barr and remission, rheumatoid arthritis and remission comes back sometimes with different manifestations. So sometimes people don't put together that that's where it started now because we're three, four years out. But when they look back, they're like, ah, okay, this is what started.
So they're hoping microdosing practice can help them heal some of those symptoms. That it's been, again, I feel like microdosing can help people carry almost anything better symptom wise, but in terms of inflammation related things, some of the pain chronic fatigue. I've seen in a lot of women rheumatoid arthritis, it doesn't seem to be effective [00:30:00] in healing those things, but it is effective in how we're able to hold our lives.
Well,
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Yeah. So people are actually coming into your program for like physical
Kayse Gehret: Oh yes.
Lana Pribic: Wow. That's really cool. And then what about I guess there's not as many people coming for mental health things
Kayse Gehret: too.
Lana Pribic: but yeah, they
Kayse Gehret: They still, yeah, that's been pretty consistent. My, exactly, more diversity. Yeah. And I think it's, they gave themselves. Permission, you know, to not just think this isn't just for people that are something wrong. I had this really funny experience. I was saying goodbye to a lot of my friends and small business owners in California when I was moving.
And one of my friends there has a restaurant and cafe, you know, and all that goes with that. And she was sharing how kind of off the hook lately customers had been a little bit more challenging and demanding post pandemic. And then she was, she got quiet and she said, well, Nothing can ever be as bad as the [00:31:00] people you work with.
Lana Pribic: Oh.
Kayse Gehret: And I was like, wait a minute, is she talking to me? And I was like, I left and I was like, oh, okay, she thinks the people I work with are really messed up. And I was like, actually, it's actually the people I, and I'm sure you see this too, are among the most, I feel like the most competent. most mature people we have rocking around the planet right now.
So it was really interesting to hear that people still hold these practices as they're only for me if I have something wrong to fix.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Well, yeah, that just comes from a very pre psychedelic worldview, doesn't it? Where
Kayse Gehret: uh,
Lana Pribic: Podcast episode pre psychedelic worldviews that I've dropped. Yeah, I mean, I can understand where your friend is coming from in terms of just kind of seeing [00:32:00] life and, you know, the experience of life as this is bad, and this is good. And this is a problem. And this is not a problem.
It's kind of like that black and white thinking where we know with psych, psychedelics, folks, we, we see a lot more color
Kayse Gehret: Absolutely. Thank you. That's such a beautiful reflection because I think too, when you do this work and you do the direct work and guideship and facilitation, you see the full range and expanse of human. experience, right? And I, it's easy to forget that most people don't see that. I know I teach micro dosing with psychedelics today and they're beautiful.
They have a facilitator program and I was sharing some case studies of some of the current people I was working with, what their presenting cases were, what was going on in their life. And they were a little bit. quiet. I said, what's, what are you guys thinking? And one of the women said, I'm kind of terrified.
Like it terrifies me to [00:33:00] think about working with, you know, one had a child had just died. Another one had been diagnosed with a terminal illness. And that I think is part of being in this world, doing this work that you can't get from a book, that you can't get from a training program necessarily.
It's the real world aspect of sitting with people and seeing people through this expanse of humanity. And the more you sit with groups of people in a community, normalizing this range of experience, it's a really beautiful effect.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, because there can definitely be like a disconnect between real world experience and what like research is saying or what society agrees on. What are some of those misalignments that you've seen between your direct experience and maybe what research is saying or what is commonly [00:34:00] believed about microdosing as a society?
Kayse Gehret: Ooh, good question. I think One of the things that just happened that I was so happy to see, I was at a, at the Vermont Psychedelic Society's conference and Robin Carhart Harris was presenting and he was sharing some data research and slides that showed that underneath so many of the disorders that we call disorders is actually canalistic thinking, meaning like the little canals.
In our minds that most people just have, you know, we swim in these canals and the more canalistic are thinking. the more we are prone to this array of disorders that we talk about as symptoms, we treat as symptoms, and don't go much further than that. And so it was a beautiful moment where all of the people who do the direct work that were there, the guides, [00:35:00] many who've been doing work underground, were like, finally!
Finally science is affirming what we have been saying. in real world practice for ever. So it's, it goes both ways. I think there's moments where science is affirming and then some other things like you mentioned a big one with body weight, a lot of people, and I've seen scientists, researchers connect body weight to dosing or think there's a way to standardize dosing in this work.
No. So that would be an example. And I think I've heard that a lot and I have not found that to be true in real world practice at all.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, I could see that being true with MDMA maybe but that's not really fully a psychedelic. Yeah that's a good one. That's interesting. What was that study that you mentioned? I want to look into that canalistic thinking.
Kayse Gehret: Yep. It's spelled like canal.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, [00:36:00] that is interesting because the work that I do as a coach, I use a map of consciousness and this canalistic thinking is a lot of the type of thinking and showing up to life that I actually coach people to leave behind. And everything that comes along with it, like kind of seeing like conflict and black and white thinking and the emotions associated with it are often anger, which makes a lot of sense because you look around.
on any street in the world. And like most people are walking around pretty like angry or resentful about something. So that's super interesting. I'm like
Kayse Gehret: yes. And people often ask me like, why can't I just microdose myself? Like. Can't I just do this myself? It doesn't seem that complicated. Like, why do I need a group and why do I need a coach and things? And I think so much of it is, I've seen this so, so deeply in our groups [00:37:00] and individual experience, is we've been so steeped in the narrative of talk therapy, where we come in and we talk about our trauma, over and over and over again.
And that has the opposite effect. I mean, talk about canalistic thinking. You're just burrowing that imprint over and over again. And so sometimes people are like, well, don't we need to understand it? And I was, yes, we absolutely need to understand it. But to a point, then
Lana Pribic: wants to understand it. And most of us are living in our mind.
Kayse Gehret: Yes. And so there, it hits this oftentimes in practice, especially people with very strong academic backgrounds, people who have, spent lots and lots of years in talk therapy, lots of my clients who have been psychotherapists for 30, 40 years, it's hard to move out of that thinking.
And then they also can have such huge healing, [00:38:00] which is frustrating to them. They're like, I've been talking about this for 30 years and nothing has changed. And then, you know, I take mushrooms. Are you kidding me? And so what happens though, is they start to heal through feeling. And they'll have an experience, an embodied experience, and the medicine will speak to them through that, or they'll heal in their dreams.
They'll have a really profoundly healing dream. And because they think they have to work so hard to heal, they can't allow themselves it. They feel like they need to do something more than just to receive. So that's another thing. I think why you need a coach, a guide, a community is to really help you let go.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, help you let go, understand the process, validate, mirror back. It's so incredibly powerful to have that type of support. Yeah, I'm thinking about like the perfectionists, [00:39:00] the kind of like scientific materialists you know, the people who like just want to get it right, right? They just want to get it right.
I,
Kayse Gehret: We call them the resource passing, you know, another book. Did you read this research? Did you read this book? And they always want to pass the resources. I had a very intellectual group one time and They got into they went down the rabbit hole of the sharing resources and took up like the last 10 minutes of the call just talking about books and research and this and that and I was going to bed that night and my spirit guide came through in an image and she showed me she's in this beautiful room like cavernous room of books and books and books as far as the eye could see and I said to her I said is that the Akashic records and she said No, that's every book that has ever been written by any human.
And look where you are. Noted. Got it. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: What did that mean for you?
Kayse Gehret: Oh, just that we're not going to get to [00:40:00] where we're going through reading.
Lana Pribic: Oh, okay. Yeah. Yep.
Kayse Gehret: Through the human mind.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think that there is like a place for reading and nourishing the mind, but we have also kind of left behind our intuition and our feeling senses in favor of the mind. And I find that a lot of this journey of working with psychedelics is about bringing some harmony and balance to these different operating systems that we have access to as human beings.
Right.
Kayse Gehret: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Lana Pribic: I call it holographic thinking. In my coaching practice, it's how do we balance the logic, the intuition and the feelings? And how do we use all of these kind of like, with more awareness rather than defaulting to the place where we default. So some of us may default even to just using our intuition like, have you noticed that there are people in spiritual communities that are like, only intuition.
And that's the only thing that matters. And then [00:41:00] it's they're really ungrounded. Right? So how do we kind of bring balance to that? ?
Kayse Gehret: 100%. Yes. Yes. I think a lot of the, when I intake a person, first talk with a person, I'm listening to what they're saying, but I'm also feeling out their energy because some people really are naturally very open and naturally very gifted. They may not be aware of their gifts, but they have them. And they're already.
Operate at a very high frequency energetically and a lot of them are medicated. A lot of them have had mental illness because of their sensitivity with reality. So the practice is more about grounding them and rooting them to make their energy more solid. The vast majority of the people are the opposite though, I think, to lighten them to work.
So I, [00:42:00] as you just showed, I don't think there's a one size fits all. I think it is holographic work. Absolutely. That's a beautiful way to think of it.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, that's why, yeah, just as a practitioner, such as yourself, such as myself, like energy and knowing energy is so important because people can say one thing, but their energy is saying something completely different. How does yeah, the energetics and the intuition come into play for you when you're working?
Yeah.
Kayse Gehret: It was a coincidence, but also very meant to be that I have spent thousands and thousands of hours giving and receiving body work in my life. It really prepared me to work with energy and to hold sacred space and connect with people on that level.
To mushrooms, I think very naturally help you. become energetically more [00:43:00] attuned and permeable to others energy as well. My guide has been incredibly helpful with giving me guidance to how to uniquely work with different people's energy and also studying human design has been so helpful, particularly around the energetics.
Of that and how to support people best. I've had groups of all projectors in one group. I've had groups where it was all generators. And I got, my guiding was completely different when I was working with them. Yeah. She,
Lana Pribic: guide or is it like a mentor person?
Kayse Gehret: thank you for asking. Yeah, she's not on this plane. No, this is my spiritual guide. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: How did you start connecting with your guide?
Kayse Gehret: In hindsight now, I can see that she's been with me always. You know, she's pointed out to me so many things on occasion. In my early [00:44:00] childhood as a toddler, I was like, Oh, that was, okay, that was you. I see that now. And connected all the threads and the dots. But it began probably in my late teens, which interestingly, I had a grand mal seizure disorder for many years.
So That's another thing I would like to share with people that a lot of times your disorder is a key and a clue to your gift. So in hindsight, my, my intuitive development started at the same time I seizure disorder started. And so over the course of studying hypnotherapy and doing so much energetic practices and body work, I would sense her sometimes and I would definitely receive clear instructions of move across the country.
Okay now move across the country again sometimes but it was infrequent and it wasn't until I started working with mushrooms that it really expanded and I [00:45:00] realized that connection was always there. I just had to release a lot of fear and a lot of density, heal my own nervous system before I could tap in so clearly and it was really last.
Last winter, after moving to a new area, I moved to a barrier island off the coast of Florida, that it completely opened to, now my connection with her is to the point where I can kind of hear her all the time. Or if I need to ask something, I can ask her all the time. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: That's so cool. Yeah, I love that the land and your proximity to nature played a big role in facilitating that connection.
Kayse Gehret: Our geography matters. when I told people in California I was moving to Florida It threw people for a loop. It really did and it has nothing to do with the people There it's as you said, it's the land. It's the [00:46:00] energy Every space on this earth has a vibration to it.
And so finding your home Is often not going to be tied to a job or a muggle world reason of being there. It's really finding your, your spiritual home on the planet. And we've had so many people in our microdosing community move once they started mushroom practice. Yes.
Lana Pribic: emotional as you were talking about that. Yeah. Wow. It's something that I've been thinking about so much over the years. Like where is my home? Where do I want to live? And yeah it's ongoing. It really is. Yeah I really long to return to the, home, like the Mediterranean region, that area.
Yeah. Yeah. Is that where you're from?
Kayse Gehret: Yeah, my roots are Greek.
Lana Pribic: Oh, wow.
Kayse Gehret: Yeah. So I think in us, I mean I've seen that in other people too, when you are from a lineage that has very deep [00:47:00] connection to the land, I think it lives with you always, so you always have this longingness. Like, I have yet to be in Gre I'm going to go soon, but I have not been there yet.
And I've had so many friends say to me, Wait, because there's a good chance you won't want to leave. When you have your feet on, on the land there, it will be really hard to leave. So I think that stays with you always.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, Kayse, I really feel that for you. Yeah, I'm excited. Report back.
Kayse Gehret: Likewise. Likewise.
Lana Pribic: That's
Kayse Gehret: Yeah.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, let's oh, okay. Emotion. I don't know why that just brought up so much emotion, but I'm curious since you've worked with so many people I'm willing to bet that you've come across some clients who were maybe like critical or skeptical or maybe like expected more drastic results or more rapid results or you know like it [00:48:00] didn't turn out the way they thought it would.
It
Kayse Gehret: Oh,
Lana Pribic: go the way they wanted it to, right? Which I think is the first lesson in working with psychedelics but How do you deal with that and how do you help clients manage expectations and navigate expectations and let downs?
Kayse Gehret: this is a good one. I love this one's rich. So really, it really is. Because I think there's so much, I joke with this with colleagues all the time, like it's, we can learn so much when things are going well, but we can learn so much when they're not. There's so much there for us if we just are willing to sit with it and go into it and through it.
So I think, When I think about the less successful experiences, I think one is sometimes people underestimate the level of emotionality that mushrooms can bring forth. So if you are, if you have never [00:49:00] felt really much before, if you've only allowed yourself a very little narrow bandwidth, sometimes it feels really overwhelming to people.
And. It hasn't happened frequently, but that has happened where people are pushed for sure. To, to the level of emotionality, expectations of speed. Oh my gosh, my colleagues who are outside North America, just laugh at me with the expectations we have, you know, in North America of how fast things are going to happen.
You know, 30 day challenges and six weeks. They're like, What do you think? What do people think that's gonna happen in six weeks or a single session? And I was like, Yeah, we have high standards here. We're very impatient.
So they do, they want to know what to expect. Part of it, I think it's like that controlling grippy human mind that we have where we want to know what to expect when it's going to happen and what time frame.
And so the idea that it's a very intuitive, nuanced, personal experience that [00:50:00] you can't predict, particularly with mushrooms, is edgy for a lot of people. And then two, a lot of times I've seen with mushrooms, And it's so magical when it's happening, even though it's rarely pleasant on its face is it brings it speaks to people by evoking a feeling.
And sometimes that can mean a lot of projection comes up. So That can be a projection on the medicine, that can be a projection on the group, that can be a projection on me sometimes as a space holder. And, but when you're able to, and the client is willing to get underneath that projection and what's actually going on, it can be incredible breakthroughs can happen.
And. lifetimes of blockage can't, they can work through with that. So sometimes people aren't ready to do it. So that can be [00:51:00] challenging, but more often than not, especially with the group and the support around them kind of presencing them and clapping them on people are really willing to step in.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Yeah, I like the use of the word edgy and how feelings and again back to the holographic thinking like feeling and emotions. It's another way of knowing that not many people are familiar with working with. So I love this idea that the mushrooms can help you know through feeling.
and help you process things through feeling and I think that really is why it's such a medicine for these times because we really do need to be taking the journey from the head to the heart as a collective because right now the society that has been formed out of humans living just in the logical mind I mean we've got some issues to tackle and like how do we get more into here how do we get more into here and sorry I'm pointing at the heart here [00:52:00] for people listening and create society, culture, a world, relationships, businesses life through that place.
That's really what it's about for me, right? We kind of started talking about this why and mission and purpose. So yeah, mushrooms, amazing for bringing us back into the feeling sense and knowing through another way. Thank you for sharing that. How would you describe the energy and the the resonance of mushrooms?
Kayse Gehret: Oh, I love, I do. I do. What was so funny? I was just at a dinner recently with a lot of other psychonauts and psychedelic industry people and everybody was sharing their favorite medicine around the table. No one. said mushrooms, but me, it was hilarious. And so when I asked them why it, the answers were so great that it was part of them said, I don't like mushrooms are my favorite because you never know [00:53:00] where they're going to take you.
And some of the other medicines they use, it was kind of like they were guaranteed to have this kind of, kind of experience. Mushrooms, it was like a wild card always. So that was a detriment in some people's minds. And also too, mushrooms have an ability to go straight to the thing. goes straight to it.
And if people, a lot of people said, Oh, I just, I, you know, that I took me back to that shame. It took me back to that guilt. It took me back to this shadow, these shadow elements that some of their other experiences with medicine tend to keep them in the light. And so I, I understand that, but I love working with soul work.
I love doing kind of the deep. gritty, earthy soul work for people to lay a foundation to then do the ascension work on. So one of my colleagues and close friends [00:54:00] works with 5 MeO, and we have had some people start with microdosing, start with mushroom work, do that rich inner work, composting, not easy.
And then when they started the 5 MeO, period. It was beautiful because they were coming from really clean energy. Yeah. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: love that. Yeah, I find any really deep earthy medicine will work as a great preceder to 5meo because if you can get grounded and work through some of that human stuff, some of that content, right? You'll be much better prepared for 5meo, which has no content
Kayse Gehret: Absolutely.
Lana Pribic: earthy at all.
Kayse Gehret: Absolutely. Yeah. My experience of Mushroom Spirit is it's very, it's big truth. It feels very truthful Real, as my friend Bina said, the [00:55:00] realest real. And it's also exceptionally intelligent, the mushroom spirit. I've seen it's remarkable to me. And I often need to have my guide explain to me what's going on here with this one.
And the mushroom is so intelligent that it finds a way to communicate to people. so precisely, so uniquely in a way that's only designed for them. And it would have been the only way for them to understand in that way. And so it's kind of part of the process and understanding is attuning ourselves to nature's communication versus our community, our human way of communicating.
Which is very logical and linear and plain. I find the mushroom spirit very clever. Often, very cheeky sometimes, very cheeky and very calls us out oftentimes in a playful, loving way.
Lana Pribic: [00:56:00] Interesting. Yeah I'm intrigued that you use the word direct for mushrooms because that has not been my experience at all with mushrooms. So yeah, curious what you mean by that, because I feel like the mushrooms always take me on like this kind of like, windy twisty, kind of, let's go around this corner and look at this view.
And then maybe you can piece it all together after.
Kayse Gehret: Absolutely. When I say direct, I think I mean truthful. Yeah. It's not always the straightest line there, but I think the content it provides for you is the biggest, most direct honesty.
Lana Pribic: Okay. Yep. I see what you mean by that. Direct in terms of, it's not going to lie to you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Kayse Gehret: Yes. Ready or not. Ready or not. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, I love that. I love that. Thank you for sharing that because I know so many people love mushrooms and I certainly don't give the mushrooms enough love on the podcast. So thank you for that.
Give the mushroom fix to the [00:57:00] people. So, um, Talk to us a little bit about what you have going on in terms of your offerings and how people can work with you and who should work with you. Yeah,
Kayse Gehret: is our immersion program. So we're about to do our 30th cohort of that. It's a six week deep dive. It's always between eight and 15 people, depending on the energy of the group. And that is, I love them because it's truly immersive. I'm kind of in with people throughout the whole six weeks.
Then we just launched a community. So membership. So a lot of people, especially as we climbed out of the quote unquote pandemic era, you know, people, a lot of people were coming to me saying, I want you. I want to microdose. I want a community. I don't want to have to do a whole training program, I'm tired of reading on screens, I don't want to do a multi month thing, and [00:58:00] so we created a very accessible, it's only 22 a month to join we have a great, we can, we're open to 30 countries thanks to sourcing partners in each.
We have a wonderful, a partner, collaborator in Canada who we partner with in Canada to make it available to Canadians, and that and then I have a professional mentorship group that's so fun. It's all working professional microdosing guides, working with all different medicines. We do not have Kanna yet. Yes, but we, I am so excited to, to learn more about that medicine through you soon and We also have a podcast. So we focus our podcast frequently on microdosing or bring in people who specialize in something that is very supportive to the microdosing process and journey. Yes.
Lana Pribic: three different [00:59:00] offerings there, I think I heard, yeah, perfect, awesome. So we'll link all of that in the show notes for people. So when is the next cohort starting for the. Okay, cool, cool. So I don't know if this will be out by then, but if it's not, they'll catch the next one.
Kayse Gehret: Yes,
Lana Pribic: Yeah, amazing.
And where can people find you? What's the podcast name? What are your socials, website?
Kayse Gehret: I am super easy to find given the spelling of my name. So I'm at Kayse Gehret on all the places I am on LinkedIn, Instagram. I am on Facebook when Facebook allows me to be seen which is minimally some days. And also yes, through our website at hello@microdosingforhealing.com. And the podcast is simply the Microdosing for Healing podcast.
Lana Pribic: Amazing. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on. This was really fun. It was nice to finally get to sit down with you.
Kayse Gehret: [01:00:00] Likewise.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, beautiful. Thanks, Kayse.
Kayse Gehret: Thank you.
Lana Pribic: Perfect.
