107 | Iboga vs. 5-MeO-DMT: Navigating the Two Strongest Psychedelics on Earth
“Iboga and 5-MeO-DMT could not be more opposite from each other. Exploring the lessons of these two medicines offer us this really unique yin and yang, full picture perspective of what this life experience is all about and what it means to be human.”
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In this episode, I am focusing on Iboga and 5-MeO-DMT, two of the most potent substances known to humankind. This episode is to serve as a guide for people who are unsure of which heavy hitting psychedelic to work with. My theory is that while these two medicines are complete polar opposites, together, they offer a whole and complete picture of what this human existence is all about. Both help us answer important questions from different angles.
I provide an in-depth comparison of Iboga and 5-MeO-DMT, discussing:
what the medicine is
origin
ethical considerations
use cases
the experience
duration
energy of the medicine
preparation process
integration considerations
physical effects
who it's best suited for
how to know if you're ready for each one.
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Where to find Lana:
I was introduced to psychedelics in my early 20s within rave culture, and few years later I began to use plant medicine ceremonially.
Many circumstances aligned leaving me shattered, and I began the journey of putting myself back together. Plant medicine & psychedelics saved me from depression, anxiety, and a life of feeling unworthy. This is now my life’s work and I have devoted myself to sharing psychedelics and plant medicines with others because I have personally experienced how effectively they can catalyze growth, healing and connection.
This idea for Modern Psychedelics came to me during a journaling session in early 2020. I was learning so much about psychedelics at the time (while experiencing the benefits firsthand), and I had a deep desire to talk about these topics with people in the field. Upon launching the Instagram community, the page grew tremendously over a short period of time and continues to have high levels of engagement.
I am a 3x certified professional life coach, and I work with people who want to better their lives by deeply integrating insights from their psychedelic experiences. I believe that we don’t have to spend our entire lives healing, and that the purpose of life is to live in the present moment.
Looking for a professional coach to support you on your psychedelic path?
Look no further! Along with being the host of the Modern Psychedelics Podcast, Lana is a 3x certified professional coach who works with people on the psychedelic path.
Podcast Transcipt
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[00:00:00] So before we jump into today's episode, I have one announcement and I will just give you guys some personal updates as well. So my announcement is that at the end of this month on September 27th to 29th, I am going to be co facilitating a medicine retreat with my beautiful friend, Carolina, who is an experienced facilitator and we're so excited for this. If you are thinking of joining or are interested in hearing more details, just send me a DM on Instagram at modern psychedelics and I'll send you a little PDF with all of the information. Like I said, it's September 27th to 29th.
It's in the Prince Edward County region in Ontario, not too far from Toronto. And we are keeping the group really small at around four, maybe five people. It's in a beautiful location where I actually celebrated my 33rd birthday. It's in a , beautiful cottage with a fireplace and [00:01:00] sauna and hot tub, and we're going to have a wonderful.
Weekend of deep work and introspection. So yeah, if anyone out there is listening and curious, I will share more details, including what the medicine we will be serving will be. It's definitely different than, , most retreat experiences. So if you're looking for something different, yeah, reach out and I will be happy to provide you with more information.
So Yeah, the day that you hear this episode, I'm actually going to be driving up to my favorite and most special festival and celebration and land that I Have ever known and that is Harvest Festival every year in September.
I attend with the exception of the four years that I didn't go because I was on my healing journey. But last year I went back for the first time and I actually talked about my experience and episode. Oh, what was it? [00:02:00] Episode.
It was episode 73, my first psychedelic ebook, Go Death, Embracing the Inner Darkness, where I basically lost my mind and ego on the dance floor. And I shared all about that in that episode. But yeah, so I'm just getting ready to go to Harvest Festival this upcoming weekend. And I'm so excited. And that always signifies like, The closing of a year for me.
So I'm in a very reflective state right now. And just as I thought my five MEO integration was over, everything around me has started falling apart. And it's really interesting. I'm in this place of not flow. And usually I live in a place of flow and I'm questioning a lot of like friendships and relationships and things.
And I'm gaining so much clarity about what I want in life. But then with that clarity, it becomes very clear what is not aligned with that. So yeah, I'm really going through it right now. And what's been interesting about that is that because of the five MEO experience, I [00:03:00] feel that my heart energy is really guiding me through this challenging time, which feels really nice.
It's definitely a sign of growth for me because I've been in this place before where I've really been struggling. I've been unearthing and unpacking. new material about my core wound, which is the abandonment, the isolation wound, not feeling wanted. Yeah. I've uncovered a new layer with that. And I'm actually thinking about starting a therapeutic process around that.
But yeah, it's been so interesting to be in this place where I'm going through it, but then also feel like my heart energy is guiding me and I'm not freaking out about it. I'm kind of just Riding the wave smoothly and keeping like that seat of consciousness. My true self is very present. So yeah, it's been a challenging time, but also a very beautiful and validating time.
If you're watching on YouTube, you'll also see that I'm in a new space and I've moved four [00:04:00] times in the last two or three months. And this is going to be my new space for probably the next little while I've actually gotten so much clarity about what I want, as I mentioned. And one of the things that I want is to.
Own a condo in Toronto. So I know what I need to do now. And I'm looking forward to just going hard on saving my money for a down payment and making that happen for myself. And other than that, my coaching practice has been so expansive for me lately. About three or four months ago, I got an influx of clients and they've just been absolutely incredible.
And I I feel that my clientele is changing a lot over the years and are coming in at a different phase than they were before. And part of me was so nervous to coach such amazing. Just incredible individuals. And I've really been stepping [00:05:00] into myself as a practitioner and I'm starting to get supervision in the form of psychotherapy.
Thank you to my friend Antonia who recommended that I do that. And yeah, I've just been stepping into this new layer of Being a coach, like truly really holding people through transformation. So yeah, so much going on. That's my little update for you guys.
So I want to get into the topic of today's episode. This is an episode that's been in my episode drafts for months and months now. And it is on the topic of the similarities and differences between the two strongest psychedelics known to man and the two psychedelics that have transformed and blessed my life the most.
And that is Iboga and 5 MeO DMT. And I want to talk to you guys about this today because I'm so absolutely in love with both of these medicines. And it's been really interesting to work with both and to see. [00:06:00] How, even though they're complete opposites, like complete opposites, and that will become clear to you by the end of this episode, they're so synergistic in the way that they work together.
So I've done a lot of psychedelics in a variety of settings. I mean, MDMA, mushrooms, LSD, ayahuasca you name it, right? DMT, the only thing I haven't really tried is the cacti. Medicines mescaline peyote, and I will probably never try peyote because it's not mine to try.
You know, I've done my fair share of psychedelics, and I don't mean that in a way to brag, I just mean that in a way to offer this perspective of, out of all of them, these two have been the most transformative for me.
And that's not to say that they will be the most transformative for you, but I've definitely covered the most about these two. Medicines, even though the bulk of my work has been with ayahuasca. It's interesting. It was like Iboga and 5 MeO that really blasted me forward.
My mom reflected back to me that Iboga was one step [00:07:00] forward for me, like a big step forward. And that 5 MeO was two steps forward. And it's so validating to have the people in my life reflect these changes in me. And I think part of the reason that they were also so effective for me was just because of.
The point on my journey that I was in when I entered Iboga and 5 MeO. However, I do think that they are like, regardless of my own personal experience, I do think that they are incredibly powerful. They are the most powerful and potent psychedelics known to humanity. So I did Iboga in November, 2022, almost two years ago.
I cannot believe it. I did do a small dose of Iboga last winter and this February. I don't really count that. But yeah, the first time I did iboga was November 2022. And then I did 5 MEO exactly a year later in November 2023. And I haven't done any medicine work since the 5 MEO [00:08:00] experience in November 2023.
So it's been almost a year. So prior to Iboga, I was working mostly with ayahuasca for a I don't know, like two to four years, I was doing some work with mushrooms. You know, I had a lot of recreational experiences with other psychedelics. So like I said before, this work definitely helped me to prepare to receive these powerful medicines.
And while I still feel that I'm integrating five MEO in a lot of ways, And that this funk that I've been in recently is definitely a part of my five MEO integration because I'm learning to show up through my heart space, even through the funk. Yeah, even though I'm still integrating it, I feel that I have enough distance from both medicines to be able to speak on the topic of conversation today.
So , even though these two medicines are completely different. Honestly, they could not be more opposite from each other. I do believe that together they really make up the whole of what it means to [00:09:00] be human and that exploring the lessons of these two medicines really offer us this really unique yin and yang, full picture perspective of what this life experience is all about and what it means to be human and what it means to be a spiritual being.
Along with a human. So for example, Iboga is about going deep within yourself. Whereas 5MEO is about going far outside of yourself, way, way far outside of yourself. Iboga is this earth consciousness. Whereas 5MEO is a universal consciousness. Iboga is from the earth. 5MEO is synthetic. Like they're polar opposites.
opposites, but they really are the yin and yang of psychedelics that just go together so beautifully. And I'm proposing this theory officially to the psychedelic space. I have not seen someone talk about this yet. So this is my little working theory about. Just what psychedelics in general as like a class [00:10:00] of drugs have to offer and a very unique way that we can work with them.
They both happen to be incredibly strong, incredibly potent, have incredible potential. To draw a line in the sand for you and to shift your perception of yourself and your life. And when we shift our perception, which is what I do as a life coach, I help people to shift their perceptions into more empowering ones.
And this is what psychedelics do as well. When we shift our perceptions, we shift our thoughts. We shift our emotions. We shift our actions. We shift the results that we get in our life. So. Never underestimate the power of shifting your perception and how you perceive your place in life. So let's get into comparing and contrasting these two medicines.
And I'm basing this on the following criteria. So what the medicine is, the origin, use cases, the experience, the duration, the energy [00:11:00] of the medicine, the preparation process, the integration process, physical effects, who it's best suited for and how to know if you're ready for each one.
So let's get started.
I'm so excited to be going through this with you because this is really the outcome of months and months of deep thought around this. So could not be more excited to be delivering this episode for you. So what the medicine is. So Iboga is a plant based medicine derived from the root bark of the.
Tabernacle Iboga shrub, it's earth based and 5 MeO DMT is a synthesized or naturally occurring compound. And I'm talking about it today as the pure molecule 5 MeO DMT, which is synthetic. However, 5 M e O D M T. The molecule is also found most famously in the secretion of the Sonoran Desert Toad.
So let's get into the origin. Whereas Iboga is [00:12:00] indigenous to central West Africa, mainly in Gabon, Cameroon, like the Congo area. It also has a very clearly known lineage and tradition. Iboga is part of the Bwiti tradition, and the Bwiti tradition is not a religion. It's more of a life philosophy. It's a set of principles that teach us what life is all about and how to show up for life. And the Bwiti tradition is very ancient. Bwitists claim that Bwiti is as old as the earth is. And it's just, it just has a very clear lineage, a very clear tradition.
It's been studied and used for many, Decades and centuries. On the other hand, 5 MeO could not be more different. So like I mentioned, 5 MeO is synthetic or man made. The origin, like how did we even learn about this? It's a [00:13:00] naturally occurring compound in the secretion of the Bufo alvarius toad or the Sonoran desert toad.
So this is found in the Sonoran desert, but 5 MeO DMT is also found in trees and plants around the world. However, it's not in high enough concentrations That would be an effective dosage for human beings. So the secretion or the synthetic is really the most, effective way to consume it for human beings. It's also believed that 5 MeO DMT is produced in the human brain. So I believe that this is a theory. You guys know I'm not a scientist, and I don't follow science very closely. I believe that this is a theory and scientific evidence is still emerging for this, but there is a strong use case that 5 MeO DMT is naturally occurring in the human brain.
brain as well. Now, 5meo does not have a known lineage or tradition. There's no culture that we know about that has clearly used [00:14:00] 5meo DMT or anything containing 5meo DMT. In their culture or lineage. So five MEO is kind of like a blank slate and there's really no like right or wrong way to work with it.
I mean, there's definitely a wrong way, , I take that back. There's definitely a wrong way. But in terms of cultural tradition five M is much more open, whereas Iboga, depending on who you talk to is much more of a closed tradition. And yeah, as Paige, Alexandra West said on my podcast interview with her, some people choose to ignore traditions.
So now this isn't something that I have in my notes, but I'm also realizing that ethical considerations is something that also differs between the two. So ethical considerations to consider with Iboga definitely, Wanting to, you know, I'm definitely an advocate for respecting the culture [00:15:00] and the tradition and not appropriating this medicine just because it is so rooted in the Bwiti tradition.
So an ethical consideration for people might be to look for facilitators and guides, which in the Iboga world are known as Iboga guides. providers. Okay. They're not Iboga shamans. They're Iboga providers. There are shamans. However, it's much more rare to find a true Iboga shaman or Ganga in North America, unless you go to Africa.
So one ethical consideration is the respect and the for the culture and tradition, has your facilitator been properly initiated and given the blessing to serve this medicine and to share it? Are they a true Iboga provider that has gone through training? Another ethical consideration for Iboga is that it is an endangered species in Africa and that the rising demand for both Iboga and Ibogaine are continuing to contribute to Iboga being stripped [00:16:00] from its natural landscape.
And there's, you know, organizations like Blessings of the Forest that are planting Iboga trees, but definitely wanting to make sure that Iboga That is coming from a ethical source and that the villages that are affected by the Iboga being taken from their land are being properly reimbursed and compensated for that.
Just making sure that your Iboga provider has that. been , given the medicine in a good way is something to consider now an ethical consideration for 5 MeO DMT. So I'm a proponent of the synthetic molecule rather than the bufo alvaria secretion because there are ethical, ecological, and environmental concerns with bufo medicine.
you know, a lot of people believe that we should not be harming these toads in order to have [00:17:00] a spiritual experience. And I think that if there is a synthetic version of the medicine that is just as effective and just as similar to, , the quote unquote real thing, it's perfectly okay to be using the synthetic.
There's, You know, people on both sides of the camp some who believe that, of course, the bufo secretion is different. How can it not be? Cause there's different alkaloids and there's people who think that it's absolutely the same thing and who have tried both.
So yeah, worth doing your own research around. But for me myself, I'm definitely a proponent of the synthetic. And if you are working with. The Bufo again, just making sure it's coming from a good source and that the toads are not being endangered or harm through the practices of cultivating the medicine.
Okay, so let's go into use cases. So Iboga is most commonly used for addiction recovery, especially Ibogaine. So Ibogaine is. A single [00:18:00] alkaloid that is found inside of the Iboga root bark. There are, I believe it's 12 or 18 known alkaloids. Ibogaine is only one of them.
And that is being used for addiction recovery and detox quite a lot in Mexico and Costa Rica. However, Iboga traditionally has been used by the Bwiti for deep personal healing, psycho spiritual growth and spiritual exploration, as well as spiritual initiations and as a tool to really learn about life, what is this life about?
And as we learn about what life is about and what it means to be human with Iboga, it actually opens up space for us to heal. our past wounds. So there are many use cases for Iboga. 5 MeO DMT is really, used for this ego dissolution this non dual experience and a profound connection with universal consciousness.
It can be useful for spiritual [00:19:00] growth specifically Consciousness expansion. You know, there's so many different realms of spirituality. Five M E O D M T is really blasting open your consciousness and your level of perception of what is possible and what life is about and what really exists out there.
But. Again, it's also used for healing from depression, PTSD. It's extremely healing for the nervous system
Okay. So now I want to talk about the experience. So both are intense and both are very strong, but in very different ways. So the Iboga experience is intense. It's long lasting. It's very visionary. There's a lot of content that might come up. So by content, I mean, People events that have happened before thoughts about yourself, reflections about yourself and your relationships, you know, Iboga is full of this type of content.
A lot of people will experience a life review where they are able to go through different [00:20:00] things that have happened in their life from the moment they were born up until. Today. There's a very deep introspection that can happen with Iboga. It's grounded in this earthy, ancestral, primal energy. The experience really is about going deep into yourself.
It's about going further than you've ever gone into yourself. And in doing that, you can actually dissociate from the body. This is called a taxia and which is why it's very important to be with trained guys who can help you during this time, because it's very common for people to have a hard time standing up, walking, and just feeling the discomfort of not feeling in their body.
For me, Iboga was really about the experience of duality of life on earth. It was exploring the light and the dark, the good and the bad. Bad and all of the spaces in between Iboga often takes people on a journey to the moon so that you can really look down on your life on Earth and [00:21:00] Iboga is done at nighttime.
It's about really exploring the shadow aspects. And when dawn comes. You're still in the medicine because it can last up to 48 hours. But at least 18 to 24 hours, you will be in the medicine. Now the sounds really intense, but trust me, if you are in the proper care at a really good retreat center this really is not an issue and you are just there to do your work and that's what you're there to do and you're supported in that.
So there can be several phases within this. You know, 18 to 24 to 48 hours, including visions, insights, processing time, but overall Iboga can be very long, very intense, and very uncomfortable for some people. There can be purging. It's less common than with ayahuasca, but still it's pretty common. I would say about 50%.
50 to 70 percent of people purge with Iboga and that's just coming from my experience of helping out and volunteering at some Iboga retreats at Iboga Wellness. So that's [00:22:00] the Iboga experience, right? Very inward, very long, very visual, full of content.
Another thing that is very common if you are doing a proper Bwiti Iboga retreat and ceremony is something called the spiritual shower that is done typically before the first ceremony or in between the first and second ceremony for Iboga. And this is another just piece of the Bwiti tradition that is incorporated Into the Iboga experience.
And it's a spiritual shower that allows you to release what it is that is holding you back in life and call in what it is that you want in life. And I don't even remember what I released and called in. During my spiritual shower, but whatever it was, I feel like it definitely came true and like I have released that stuff and have been receiving the stuff that I called in.
The Iboga medicine comes on very slowly. There's like this very gradual buildup [00:23:00] to the peak of the experience. And then there's a peak, you stay in the peak for hours. And then there is a coming down period where you, are being flooded with insights. Now, that's the typical Iboga experience.
5 MeO on the other hand could not be more different when it comes to the experience. 5 MeO has a very rapid onset. Within less than 10 seconds, you will start to feel Things start to melt away and you will start to feel the medicine come on very strongly.
It is not gentle you will probably experience an overwhelming disillusion of self into a state of pure consciousness It's often described as a universal love energy. Some people connect it to the feeling of ultimate love pure love And Honestly, a lot of people have a better understanding of what the big G O D word is and I want to just be very sensitive in using that word because I know a [00:24:00] lot of people in my audience have a religious trauma and I'm not really talking about God in a religious type of way.
I'm talking about it in a universal love. Consciousness energy type of way. A lot of people have a direct connection to this universal love. It's a very transcendent experience and it's about going beyond the self, way beyond the self. It is very common to leave the body. It's very common to white out though. It's called a white out. So the whiteout is an experience where you leave the body and you go unconscious for some time. And during this time, you may have complete lack of control over what is happening to you. You may scream. Cry, thrash your body, move around, punch get up. There can be many things that happen physically during this whiteout, which again, sounds very scary and terrifying for people.
But again, I want to ensure you that [00:25:00] if you are in the right place, care and in the right setting and with the right facilitators who really know how to work with this medicine, it can be a very fruitful and not scary at all, but very healing and supportive. So at the end of this episode, I'm going to tell you guys the tips.
And I'm going to talk about the two spots that I recommend for each medicine specifically. But back to the experience of 5 MeO. Where Iboga is really about duality of life on Earth and accepting and coming to terms with the duality, coming to terms with the lightness of life. And the dark within and without 5meo is about the non dual nature of universal consciousness.
It's not earthy at all, right? We live in a dual world. We live in a realm of duality. There is light and there is darkness and there is in between. Now 5meo is about this non dual state, this non dual reality that is way beyond our realm here. It really blasts you through the earth, through the spiritual realms, you go beyond the spiritual realms [00:26:00] and directly to the source of it all.
And of course, this is my interpretation of what seems to happen. However, my interpretation tends to be very much in line with, you know, the general consensus of people who have worked with 5meo and had this breakthrough experience. 5meo It's more common to do it during the day, whereas Iboga is more common to do it during the night.
And it's very common to be flooded with white light especially upon coming back to yourself and coming back to your ego and remembering who you are in that moment. It's very common to experience this white light experience. However 5MEO can also be very dark and very challenging .
So the duration, again, could not be more different, lasts about 15 to 45 minutes, usually around the 20 minute mark. But the experience itself feels timeless. So a lot of people will say Oh 15 minutes, even if it's really hard, I can do anything for 15 minutes. However this really, It [00:27:00] isn't an important consideration just because 5meo is a very short experience that does not speak to how powerful and intense it can be and just how ready you need to be for something like this.
I have found that even though 5meo is the shortest acting psychedelic, it has been the longest integration period for me. It's wild. I don't know how it works. It really makes no sense. But for me, like I said, five MEO was almost a year ago. I'm still integrating it very clearly. So, , 15 to 45 minutes where I did my 5 MEO ceremony.
The ceremony itself was 2 to 3 hours. So I had a few, I had four rounds of 5 MEO gradually building up the dose over time. So it goes back to the fact that there is not really like a right way or a wrong way to do 5 MEO. It's a more open medicine, whereas the Iboga ceremony, Which I didn't speak about the Iboga ceremony [00:28:00] itself.
You know, it's very traditional. There's a way to do it. There is an altar. There is fire. There's like very specific things that proper Bwiti traditional Iboga ceremony requires. Five MEO doesn't have that. So it lasts about 15 to 45 minutes per dose, but there's this immediate return to baseline within an hour.
So within an hour, like you can walk, you're completely back to yourself.
You can even drive, although it is definitely not recommended. So to summarize, the Iboga experience is long and intense. The 5meo experience is short and intense. Okay. Let's talk about the energy. I'm really excited about this cause I am all about energy. So the energy of Iboga is connected to the earth.
It's energy. It's connected to ancestral wisdom and it has a very grounding energy. It has a very like heavy and dense energy, and it's often experienced as [00:29:00] slow, heavy, and intense. The energy of it is also more masculine, but Iboga is also more feminine in some ways. For example, it can be like very direct and to the point, I mean, if you want a very direct and clear medicine.
Iboga. Actually, 5-MeO is also very direct and clear, but in a different way. So it's like I was saying, it's also feminine in that even though it's very direct, it's also very gentle and loving. So there is this like feminine part of it that is a little less dominant than the masculine directness, but there is a feminine part of it.
It is an earth medicine. I also feel that. Iboga is a medicine for the mind. It's a medicine to really clean up your mind of the clutter, to show you what it's like to experience a clutter free mind without the limiting beliefs, without all the [00:30:00] lies. Iboga is known as truth serum. It is the medicine of truth and The truth of what it means to be alive.
And honestly, the more, you know, the less, you know, and the Bwiti tradition really allows this framework to explore what truth is capital T truth in this life. And I feel like I've personally just glimpsed the surface of it when it comes to. The Bwiti tradition, and I definitely have so much more to learn from it, and I'm looking forward to that.
Okay, so the energy of 5 MeO, like I said, it's associated with universal love. It has this more kind of cosmic, like quantum energy, I would say. The energy of 5 MeO is that it's energy medicine. It's light medicine. When I said that iboga was earth medicine, this is Light medicine or energy medicine.
It is healing you through energy and light. I received a [00:31:00] significant nervous system reset and my nervous system and the way that I taken stimulus now has completely changed since 5meo. It's often described as light, boundless, transcendent, but like I said, it can also be very dark and scary depending on the person's experience.
But overall, yeah, the energy of 5meo is just pure love, pure connection and ego transcendence. When I said that Iboga is very direct, 5MEO is also very direct, but it's a direct in the sense that it'll take you directly to the source of it all. And it's kind of hard to talk about.
It's kind of hard to talk about. I'm sure to some people I'm sounding really woo woo ing out there, but for those of you who have done 5MEO, I know you know what I'm talking about. And for those of you who haven't and are intrigued by what I'm saying you know what I'm talking about. You know, maybe that's a seed being planted.
\ okay, let's go into the preparation and integration. So Iboga requires definitely some [00:32:00] preparation. There are some dietary restrictions. However, they're not as significant as ayahuasca, not at all. There's mindset work that's involved and sometimes medical supervision that is involved with Iboga.
Iboga affects the heart and the heart rate. When you take it, it changes your heart rate. So not everyone is a good candidate for Iboga and your heart condition must be checked. You must be approved for Iboga. You must take an EKG and be approved to work with Iboga. This is crucial and vital for the preparation and a good Iboga provider will give you tons of prep work to do a life review, to Think about what you want to call in and what you want to let go of.
A good Iboga provider will Give you some work to do before just to get really clear on what it is. Your intention is for Iboga 5-MeO also requires preparation, but it's mostly focused.
I would say on your nervous system [00:33:00] and energy, as well as mindset, of course, setting intentions. A lot of the prep work for 5MEO is just in coming to realize whether you are ready for a very significant change in your paradigm of how you perceive life and what is possible and really what is out there and your understanding of what this universe is all about and made of.
Life prepares you for five more than anything. You just really have to be ready for this level of expansion and opening. I would say that five MEO is definitely not beginner friendly. Iboga is definitely a little bit more beginner friendly in some ways, and the integration is crucial for both. For Iboga, it can take months or years to fully process, and it often includes ongoing coaching or therapy.
It's definitely greatly enhanced by coaching before and after. I always say that Iboga is the world's best life coach. Iboga is going to give me a run for my money as a life coach. However, I have [00:34:00] personally supported several people through their Iboga prep process and integration and it's been really validating to see that how Iboga and coaching together work really beautifully because coaching can be the place where you really bring in that Bwiti wisdom.
And make the changes that Iboga asks you to make. For 5MEO, the integration, while the experience is brief, integration is classically just very long. There's just a very long integration with 5MEO. A lot of people say that they are integrating it their entire lives. It can be very rocky. It can be very challenging due to a massive paradigm shift.
Community is crucial. It's really important to stay connected with people who have done five MEO and who understand the ineffable nature of the medicine and what you experienced. It might require support to make sense of the ego [00:35:00] disillusion and the experience of non duality.
It can definitely take a lot of time to process and even begin to understand what happened for you.
I know that I Listened to a few 5meo reports before I did 5meo And I kind of knew what to expect and yet knowing what to expect is completely different than actually experiencing it. And for me, it took me about three weeks to a month to even begin to try to understand the experience.
Let's talk a little bit about the physical effects. So Iboga can cause nausea, vomiting or ataxia, which I mentioned earlier. So that's the loss of muscle control. And this is during the actually Iboga experience. Physical effects can be intense and prolonged.
It can be very uncomfortable to be laying down on a mat for hours on end. For me, the physical part wasn't a huge deal, but I've definitely seen some people. Struggle with [00:36:00] the physical aspect of it for five M. E. O. There's minimal physical effects aside from the intensity of the psychological experience, some nausea and physical discomfort are possible, but usually you're so Um, I mentioned the white out is possible during the experience, and there's this involuntary thrashing, shaking, screaming, crying um, sounding, singing that might happen.
But purging is definitely less common but possible. So just don't eat before your 5MEO retreat or before your 5MEO ceremony.
So that's a lot about these medicines and I hope that you're able to see just how opposite they are. I want to talk a little bit now about how to know if you're ready and who these medicines are best suited for so Iboga is really for those who are seeking long term [00:37:00] healing particularly for addiction or deeply rooted trauma or people who feel like they are really stuck and they can't figure out what is keeping them stuck and they just want to move forward, but they don't know how.
And I say that's what coaching is for people too. But like I said, Iboga the world's best life coach people who are ready for a longer, more physical process. That's definitely something to consider. And. And I think Iboga is also suited for people who need grounding, right? If there's anyone out there who feels a little, you know, out there, like they could use some grounding, like they are maybe spending a little too much time in the stars or a little too connected to their spiritual, Astral kind of nature.
I think Iboga is really useful for grounding into life on earth. And just arriving here, and appreciating this life. You know, one of the main lessons from the Bwiti tradition, is that life is the greatest gift. This life is the [00:38:00] greatest gift. And just being given the gift of life is all that we will ever need to do.
Be worthy. There's nothing that we need to make us worthy other than the fact that we are already born. So Iboga really helps people to arrive here into this life and live their life. And 5-MeO also does that, but in a different way. 5-MeO is best suited for those looking for a brief, but intense transformative experience.
And those who are ready for an easy, Ego death and ready to be connected with universal consciousness. You really need to be ready to lose your sense of self. And I think to be ready to lose your sense of self, you need to have a strong sense of self to begin with. So five MEO is really suited for those who have done quite a bit of work and are comfortable with themselves and know themselves and are comfortable with the idea of an intense short burst of experience.
It's. It's definitely for people who are open to becoming untethered and ungrounded, [00:39:00] only to hopefully become more grounded after. So Iboga is like very grounding, and it teaches us to ground, whereas 5-MeO is very ungrounding.
How, so how do you know you're ready? you know, you're ready for Iboga. If you're willing to take a deep and honest inventory of yourself, your relationships, your limiting beliefs, your holding patterns, the voice in your head, like you're really ready to confront that voice in your head that's holding you back and change your relationship with it for the good.
It can also. offer a really deep look into your life purpose. What is this life all about? And your internal landscape, right? What does inside really look like for you? I would say Iboga is a little bit more beginner friendly than 5 MeO. I've seen many people go to Iboga without even having tried any other medicine, and it's definitely well suited for those people as long as they are properly [00:40:00] prepared and committed to their integration process.
And how do you know you're ready for 5meo? Well, You're ready for a truly ineffable, indescribable experience of pure being. 5meo is definitely unlike any other medicine. It's definitely in a league of its own. And I could say the same thing for iboga. However, I do think that iboga has a little bit of crossover with ayahuasca, just, you know, kind of being earth based and ceremonial.
I would draw the line there. However, yeah, 5meo, It's just very different. It's very clear. It's very direct. You must be ready for a level of truth and an understanding of what's really important in life, which is, yeah, I don't want to give a spoiler alert, but really it's love. Five MEO really teaches about love.
Iboga teaches about truth. If you're ready to transcend your ego and yourself, If you are ready for 5meo, if you have a strong sense of yourself and you have been doing [00:41:00] work to develop your sense of self, that's definitely something that's going to help you in working with 5meo DMT. Wow. Okay.
That's the end of my little comparing contrast section. I had so much fun talking about these two medicines. I just love them so, so much and I'm looking forward to continuing to work with them. in the future. So my words of guidance for people working with these medicines, number one, you know, both are paradigm shifters.
Both have the potential to shift the way that you experience life. For me, Iboga empowered my relationship with myself, my mind, my thoughts, my behavioral patterns, and then 5meo really changed my relationship to my heart and is teaching me how to stay in the heart space. And what I'm really truly integrating from 5MEO, like the root of it, the core of it, juicy little piece that I'm integrating is that my life purpose is to experience life [00:42:00] from my heart and to stay in my heart no matter what.
That's my 5MEO integration. And yeah, like I told you guys at the beginning, I've been going through a really hard time lately and I've been just staying in the heart or trying my best to so it's big work. Both medicines are big work. I absolutely recommend doing Iboga first and then 5 MeO because Iboga is very grounding.
And it kind of helps you deal with the human stuff, the earth stuff. And once you're grounded and rooted within yourself, it only makes sense that that rooting and grounding will help you and support you to, you know, blast off into the universal love consciousness. So that's my recommendation. I would also say if you're considering doing both or even doing the One or even doing one with other medicine, you know, a good rule of thumb is to take a lot of time and space between sessions and
yeah, and it's almost hypocritical that I recommend this because I have been in phases with my [00:43:00] work where I've done a lot of ceremonies in a short amount of time. And I think there's a time and place for it. But once I kind of arrived to the world of these bigger medicines, like Iboga and 5 MeO, I've realized that taking a lot of space and time between sessions, at least for me has been really helpful.
So that's something to think about. And just know that signing up to do either of these medicines is signing up for a potentially long and potentially challenging integration period. So just make sure you are ready for that. The places that I recommend for each of these medicines. So I definitely recommend Iboga Wellness Center in Costa Rica for Iboga.
I have gone there many times that maybe four or five times at this point, once for my own retreat and other times to volunteer and visit. And the Iboga provider there is Levi Barker and he does an amazing job and you know, it's really is like clockwork for him.
This is his life and I can't recommend him enough. And then the place that I recommend for 5MEO DMT [00:44:00] is Enfold in British Columbia. They are just the best in the world doing 5MEO ceremonies. And yeah, I really don't think that there's anyone more. prepared to be serving this medicine than Steve and Austin at Enfold.
I had just such a positive experience with both of these retreat centers and I have linked in the show notes my full review of each retreat center. If you don't want to go to either of these please just do your research. Know that there are some centers that are definitely unsafe. There has been a recent death at an Iboga center in Costa Rica which I will name as happening at Soul Centro.
So I would definitely not recommend going there, unfortunately. And I had a podcast episode with them that I have since taken down. Just make sure to do your research and really get to know the facilitators before you sign up for these experiences.
I would not recommend sitting with Iboga or [00:45:00] 5 MEO alone or with an untrained provider, especially Iboga, because there are, there is a risk of death if it is consumed in. Without the proper safety protocols and then 5meo, I also wouldn't recommend doing alone or just like having a friend trips it for you because it's incredibly unpredictable.
It's incredibly unstabilizing and dosing for both medicines is very particular. So please just be careful. These are not medicines to be taken lightly. I would also recommend working with a coach if possible, if you can afford it. I know it's a luxury to enhance and support this process of working with these big medicines.
As a psychedelics informed life coach. I have spots that are open for this fall and winter. And if you would like me to support you through both the Preparation and integration and just support you
in your journey of living a integrated life that is operating from a level of high consciousness, high love. High awareness. Get in touch with me. I would love to support you and you [00:46:00] can read some testimonials from some of my past clients in the show notes. And that's that. Wow. This was a lot longer than I thought.
I had so much fun talking about this with you. Please share this episode with anyone who you think might be interested. Find it useful. Please share it on social media and tag Modern Psychedelics. And then yeah, if you have any questions, just reach out to me over Instagram.
I respond to all of my DMs. I sending you a big love from my 5meo expanded heart. And I just wish you a happy start of fall. I love this time of year. October is just around the corner, which is my favorite month.
All right, take care and be safe,
