061 | Iboga & Bwiti Help Us Find Truth, Simplicity and Mind Mastery with Levi Barker
“Iboga separates the mind from the rest of our being. Just because you think something doesn’t make it real or true, and a lot of people haven’t looked at it like that in a while. They start identifying with every thought in their mind, and then that’s when looping thinking comes in. ”
Subscribe and leave a review!
Iboga Provider Levi Barker is back! We recorded this episode live in person in Costa Rica, while I was visiting Iboga Wellness Center in May 2023. In this episode, we go deeper into exploring this beautiful medicine and the Bwiti tradition. If you are considering working with Iboga or want to learn more, this episode is full of information that isn’t available elsewhere.
The Bwiti tradition is the study of life, and we are so lucky that Levi is sharing a little bit about it with us today. This is something that is typically only reserved for those on on Bwiti Iboga retreat. We talk about how this medicine helps us find truth by simplifying the time.
Levi also provides some reflections on changes he has seen in me since my ceremonies 6 months ago. And, he plays the Moungongo for us on the show — which is a traditional Bwiti instrument. Enjoy this one! See show notes for more on my full review of IWC and to connect with Levi.
Topics Covered:
Levi’s story: How he healed his opiate addition with Iboga & trained to become a provider
Do you need to have experience with other medicine before Iboga?
Iboga’s gift of truth and simplicity
The difference between the Truth and beliefs
How Bwiti use the mind as a tool & confirm truth
The difference between having positive and negative beliefs
The one law — the Law of Nature — in the Bwiti tradition
Ways we abuse ourselves and lose our happiness
Levi’s reflection on my Iboga Journey
How Levi works with Iboga as a provider
The future of Iboga and expanding access
The Moungongo Bwiti instrument (and a live performance from Levi!)
“Part of the Law of Nature is knowing that we come from nature. The separation of humans from nature is one of the main catalysts for the problems that we’re facing today.”
Earth Runners: Barefoot Earthing Sandals
The ultimate integration? Living in tune with the Earth. Free your feet, re-wild your sole with Earth Runners. Alongside top health pioneers & primitive experts, they created comfortable, adventure-approved earthing sandals. The copper & stainless steel earthing system grounds you to the Earth. Added bonus? They look clean and chic!
Use LANA for 10% off! 🛒
LISTEN
“People start getting disconnected with the truth because they’re not connected with nature as much. Iboga is definitely something that brings you back to the truth of things. In our Bwiti, we call I Iboga the greatest hunter for the truth.”
Things Mentioned In This Episode:
Episode 40 with Levi
Where to find Levi Barker:
Levi Barker is a Bwiti trained iboga provider and has been involved with iboga for 13 years. Levi serves the medicine full time at Iboga Wellness Center in Costa Rica. Iboga Wellness Center is the longest running psycho-spiritual iboga retreat in the West.
After being healed by the medicine himself for many ailments, Levi made the decision to follow and work with iboga for the rest of his life. He takes great pride in being able to be part of life changing experiences at Iboga Wellness.
Looking for a professional coach to support you on your psychedelic path?
Look no further! Along with being the host of the Modern Psychedelics Podcast, Lana is a 3x certified professional coach who works with people on the psychedelic path.
Podcast Transcipt
-
Levi - AI Audio
Lana Pribic: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. Welcome back to another live episode of the Modern Psychedelics podcast. I'm here in beautiful Costa Rica on the beautiful Iboga wellness land here with Levi.
We're actually sitting in the room where I did my iboga journey and and yeah, we're bringing Levi back today to go a little deeper about the Iboga medicine. Welcome.
Levi Barker: Good. Thanks for having me. Wonderful to have you back here.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, it's been so fun. And just to give the listeners some context, so I journeyed here six months ago and I shared about that in episode 45 and 49, and I'm here right now helping out with some of the retreats and it's been such a beautiful experience.
And yeah, we're sitting down today to, like I said, just go a little deeper with the medicine. People might have heard you on episode 40 where we first interviewed you, but can you reintroduce yourself to the audience and just let us know a little bit about your story and how you were called to Iboga?
Levi Barker: Yes. So [00:01:00] I had a long term opiate habit my early twenties to thirties and couldn't ever shake it. And eventually a good friend told me about Iboga and he ended up sending me some, and I did a home detox and got myself clean. Didn't know about the Bwiti or the psychospiritual aspect of it at all.
So I was really. Just thrown into it and got cleaned out. And then a year and a half later, I met Moughenda Mikela, who was the first Bwiti shaman to come to the West and shared the medicine with Westerners in a formal setting. He was definitely the first one that like actually set up a retreat to do it.
And so I met him through a friend, thankfully. It was all meant to happen. I wouldn't have met him if I wasn't an addict because I probably wouldn't have moved down eventually to Nicaragua. And he started Iboga house right over the border of Southern Nicaragua. Northern Costa Rica.
And so I met him through [00:02:00] the same friend and I, he had told me about the Bwiti a little bit before, but then I met Moughenda and we were helping him. Make his first batch of total alkaloid extract. And so me and my friend went there and Moughenda to came out with this trash bag full of iboga. Like you just cut like an acre of something, just huge amount.
And it was my job to grind it. And so I'll never forget that day, like grinding medicine all day. It was so caked in my nose. Eventually he started painting us.
And then eventually, if you get around him again, that he's gonna start giving you wisdom, like if you're, at least if you take an interest in the medicine. And he, started talking about a lot of deep yet simple stuff, which is theBwiti like very deep, but very simple at the same time.
And yes, so eventually came down and me and my wife had our first psychospiritual ceremony with him. And then from that point I was pretty well hooked. Or even after that first detox, I was like, [00:03:00] This medicine's amazing. Like it did something which a lot of people consider, impossible. And, it's not a cure, but you gotta be ready for it.
And if you are ready, you can do it. And so then started training with Moughenda over many years. He would really spoonfeed things to us slowly so you don't have to be there a lot and spend a lot of time for him to, reveal things as they come.
So then one of his first students, my partner and mentor as well, Gary Cook in the States. He started Iboga Wellness eight and a half years ago now. Yeah. And I can't believe it's been six months since your journey gone quick. Yeah. Yeah. And I yeah, just seeing you here is like a different, Better person for sure.
Yep. And Gary was Magda's first student to graduate and he started Iboga Wellness. Eventually Moughenda went back to Gabon. And so Iboga Wellness was the only spot to go for Bwiti based psychospiritual Iboga work. And yeah, Gary kept it [00:04:00] going through thick and thin. As you can imagine, iboga is just bubbling up into the plant medicine consciousness now and moving past this addiction tool into a psych, very powerful psycho-spiritual, just life advancement tool and Yeah, so he kept it going and thankfully and then eventually bog Wellness got to a spot where it could support itself and be, as word spreads, like definitely the most powerful testimonial is when people come, get their healing and go back and their family and their friends see them and that inspires other people to come.
So it took a little bit for it to spread out there. And then, so yeah, been here at Iboga Wellness eight years now. Had many people come through for many different conditions and quirks and things that they have to deal with. And and yeah, it's just most beautiful work. I'm definitely super blessed and yeah, meet the coolest people.
I wanna hang around people, they're into Iboga cuz that's one of the biggest things in my life for sure. And yeah, get, these are all people called to [00:05:00] Iboga, so yeah, it's really good.
Lana Pribic: I am curious, something that I don't know about your story is before you discovered Iboga, you were working with Ayahuasca a little bit, right? Or other plant medicines or was that after I.
Levi Barker: I actually had Iboga first did my detox had my first ceremony with Moughenda and then shortly after that went to the first, my first time to Peru and had worked with Ayahuasca and San Pedro and continued to back in Nicaragua. So I definitely have gotten a lot from the other medicines too, but definitely Iboga is my medicine.
Lana Pribic: Yeah.
Levi Barker: Yep.
Lana Pribic: Iboga a league of its own. It really
is.
Levi Barker: just different.
Lana Pribic: It's very different. Yeah. And that's a great point because a lot of people in my community have asked me, Should I sit with Ayahuasca before Iboga?
Should I have more experience?
Levi Barker: Like
Lana Pribic: I think people [00:06:00] often think that it's the medicine that you do after you have a lot of experience with other medicines, but that just isn't the case. Like we just had
like three or four
people out of seven in the last retreat and they had no experience with other medicines or psychedelics and went right to Iboga.
So is that something that you see common? Like people going straight to it?
Levi Barker: Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Iboga just grabs people at people's attention once they're really called to it and kinda won't let go.
And so as people start looking around, yeah. They just know the call is there and sometimes it can take years for them to come. We've definitely had people that I've been in touch with six years and then finally came and like, why didn't I do that before? Yeah. I'm like, I told you, I'm like, try and get it done.
Make it happen. Yeah. And but yeah. Yeah, no, it's beautiful. Having new people come in, and even the people just really experienced with plant medicine too. Love it, as well.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Yeah. I think I heard you say that [00:07:00] Iboga can make other medicines like Ayahuasca more productive and I just had my first Ayahuasca experience since Iboga and I would definitely say that's true cuz it was a completely different experience with Aya
so I wanna talk about what I think are. The biggest gifts and blessings that this medicine can give people, and that is truth and simplicity. I think I talked so much about how Iboga showed me the truth, and I could see the truth of myself and who I really was in the world and how it just simplified so much for me
Levi Barker: getting to the problem of how we've gotten away from truth and simplicity is what's happened is us humans, going back millions of years haven't changed too much. But definitely the technology around us has, and the environments that we live in. And it's been a long time that we've been trying to separate ourselves from nature as much as possible.
And as we [00:08:00] do that, people start getting disconnected with the truth because they're not in nature as much, they're not connected with it. And the medicine is definitely something that brings you back to the truth of things. And as in, in our Bwiti we call I Iboga the greatest hunter.
For the truth. And it's definitely a very good analogy to approach life as well. Just we talk about here, like hunting down the things you want in life. Not necessarily like you gotta kill an animal, what do you want in life? And hunting it down. And yeah. But you don't quite know what that is if you're not connected with the truth.
And so the medicine really goes in and gets a lot of the beliefs, like you're saying, out, out of your system. We talk about, The we, your beliefs are something that come from the mind, like they're not actually things we can fully verify. And yeah, it just makes a very clear distinction between what's real, true and known and what is what we believe, the things that we make in our own mind.
And yeah, Iboga really [00:09:00] simplifies it, when we have so much going through our mind and, cause that's how we're brought up. We're brought up to be complicated. Like the more complicated you are, probably the more that you are congratulated as a kid, whereas the kids that grow up say like a Costa Rica kid maybe they're not great in some.
Sort of school, but they're connected with nature and they're happy and they know themselves and they're able to sit with themselves and yeah. Depend on themselves for their happiness. And so simplicity is a big part of my path as well. I tried to make everything very complicated and, tried to explain it all.
And so Iboga really showed me like, Hey, there's some things you don't need to know. Everything isn't for you to know, yeah. Yeah. And yeah, and within simplicity there's just so much more freedom, that's why this path is so powerful because, when people are here, we definitely share kind of the Bwiti lessons on how to [00:10:00] live.
And most of them deal with just about anything we can come up with. And so if you just apply that thing, practice it, get some repetition in. Then you know it and make it a part of you, then it just simplifies life so much. And that's what Moughenda would always say, just laughing at people like, life is so simple.
Like you just gotta reconnect with it. And yeah, no, it's an important part of living and you can still live simply while looking for answers and, or developing things or, technological progress. There's a way to do that with staying connected with the truth and keeping it, with how nature operates.
Lana Pribic: Yeah, the one of the things. That I got outta my journey was like, it closed a lot of doors for me. Like you said, there are some things that we don't need to know, and I think people on spiritual paths get very lost and confused and it adds a lot of [00:11:00] stress to life to seek for answers that as human beings, we simply can't know the answers to.
We can't know, like what happens after death. It's just something that we can't know until it happens. And I think that's a way that we add a lot of that complication and confusion into the spiritual path specifically. And for me, the Iboga really was like, yeah, you can just you can just close that door and it's okay if you don't know.
And like it brought a lot of peace to me to not know. It's okay. you talk a lot about on the, at the fire circles, you, which aren't my favorite parts of the whole retreats. I think the, I love the fire talks and just hearing the wisdom. You talk a lot about the ways that we can actually use our mind and not have our mind use us.
How do they look at the mind as a tool and thoughts as a tool in the bui?
Levi Barker: pretty much by approaching it as a tool, and
Lana Pribic: [00:12:00] simple.
Levi Barker: yeah. The difference between using it as a tool and thinking that everything that happens in your mind is who you are, and so one of the first things we tell people is look, just because you think something doesn't make it real or true, and a lot of people haven't looked at it like that in a while. They start ident identifying with every thought in their mind. And then that's when it sets in. And the ooc d looping thinking comes in.
So the Iboga gives them the separation up from the mind from the rest of them. We want all three things working in unison mind, body. Soul without letting the mind just lead everything. And it does need to lead a lot of things because that's our tool for that. But not everything like a big dis distinction that a Iboga and the Bwiti teach is like the difference between your intuition and your mind, and being able to see where things are coming from and being able to know which, which is which.
As we talk about here, our [00:13:00] intuition is the way that our soul speaks to us and guides us through life. And we gotta be able to get the messages from that soul to get it to Yeah. To get the answers that we need to do what we need to do in life. And yeah, really, post Iboga Iboga makes you more aware of your thoughts, and typically the mind is going to be calmer for a period afterwards, but then you're more aware of the thoughts that are coming in.
And so we really tell people and everybody has to go through this and the healing process, unless they were raised in a really good way with the truth
so a lot of people now that they're aware of their thoughts, then they're just aware of like their negative thinking.
And so people need to know that's natural. That's part of it because that's how it's been done for so long. And we really talk about here thinking about the things that you want in life. That is how we call the things in energetically to get them moving, to make them happen.
And really focusing on, a lot of people think about the [00:14:00] things that they don't want, rather than the things that they do want. So just really making that, that shift just changes the energy of everything around you. And even in science, we know that the emotions or sounds things it, everything around on a quantum level shifts,
Lana Pribic: yeah, that happens all the time with my coaching clients. I'm like, so what do you want? And they're like I want to not feel stressed. And it's no, what do you want? What's the, what's on the other side of not feeling stress and anxiety and like, when we actually know who we are through seeing ourselves through the voice of truth, through the light of truth, it's a lot easier to know what we want.
How do, what has the medicine taught you about. How to actually know what is truth, like how do we confirm, you know, we talk about confirming truth and knowing what is true and what is not true. How do we go about that?
Levi Barker: We talk about in the Bwiti the only way to confirm the truth is through our own senses.
And that's the big distinction between [00:15:00] beliefs versus knowing something is because beliefs, we can't actually confirm them with our senses. A belief may give us a thought feeling combination, but that's not enough to make something true. And so just understanding that The truth, we wanna be able to verify with our senses and actually know things.
So one of the things that we can all think back on a time is when we assumed something in life and it, it hit us at some way and we, then go back I shouldn't have assumed then, assuming is just not having enough information, not having enough validation from your senses.
And yeah, that's another part of just simplifying life, being able to verify things with your senses. And if you can't do it, then you know, you need to be cautious with it and make sure that it's something that's gonna be beneficial for you. Like the belief I can do anything I want to do in life.
That's fine. But if it's the belief like, oh, my dad and mom were this way, so I'm gonna be this way, or that was when I had to go through with my own [00:16:00] addiction. It's oh, my family's like this, then I'm gonna be like that. But looking back, it's definitely just the belief, and beliefs get into us at an early age when we start making sense of the world and start trying to make the story to define, the outcomes and the life that's happening for us.
Yeah.
Lana Pribic: We talk about having those like productive thoughts, I like to say, like productive or supportive or empowering rather than positive. When we think about the supportive beliefs and thoughts versus the not supportive beliefs and thoughts, like they may not be true at the time, but they have an impact on the actions we're willing to take in the world and what we're willing to do. That's why it's so important to pay attention to beliefs.
What are your thoughts around like how beliefs may turn in into Reality for us eventually.
Levi Barker: Like positive beliefs
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Positive or negative, right? Whichever ones we have, create the actions we're willing to take in the world, and then those actions create the [00:17:00] results, right?
Levi Barker: Yeah. Like you said, yeah, what positive beliefs are perfectly fine and something we should do, but yeah, recognizing the negative beliefs is like the first part of it, or the beliefs that we have about ourselves are the first part of it. And knowing, especially after something like Iboga, like you really have a clean slate to be who you wanna be from there, and it'll help you move past those beliefs, especially self-limiting beliefs, or I'm flawed, or I'm not good enough, I'm not this enough.
And those are the ones, the first ones to get through.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Like they're not, like beliefs and thoughts aren't real, but they create real outcomes. I think is what I'm trying to get at here, right? Yeah. And like my experience was like very, I remember you talked so much about truth is simple, clear, and direct, and you don't have to question it.
And before I had my experience with Iboga, that was confusing to me. Okay. And then I experienced that voice of truth [00:18:00] and how simple, clear, and direct it was, and that I didn't have to question it, but is that the typical iboga experience? Do most people have that connection with that voice of truth and that resonance of truth?
Is that common?
Levi Barker: Yeah. Yeah. Once things settle, definitely they're able to connect with what's real or realize what's happening. They're doing it to themselves.
Or, a lot of people come in with fears around things and are able to see that, they're creating the fears themselves
Lana Pribic: mm-hmm.
Levi Barker: past it. But yeah. Yet the medicine gets down to the truth. Like a lot can be swirling around in the mind during the experience itself. But then yeah, once, once everything settles in, like it's just, you can just connect with the truth.
You can connect with thoughts that you know you're creating in your mind that have nothing to do with reality.
Lana Pribic: Yeah.
So powerful. So powerful, and I'm happy to hear that because I've talked so much about it in my episodes about my [00:19:00] experience that I was like, I hope this isn't something I'm just talking about, and that isn't common to
Levi Barker: Oh yeah. No. For sure. For sure.
Lana Pribic: good. Yeah. Yeah. You referred to it as truth serum and
Yeah. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about the one law in Bwiti? Yeah.
Levi Barker: The Law of Nature. And yeah, in the breeding we talk about, from the time we were born, everything that we'll ever need is here for us to use as we need.
Nature provides our clothing, our shelter, even plastic comes from nature, so it, anything that's made here on earth has to come from Earth. Even if you're synthesizing it and tweaking it somehow, it's still, you're still using the raw materials of Earth. So everything is here for us.
And so that's where people like a lot of people consider Elon Musk a smart guy, and I think he really is in some ways, but, rather than putting his energy into conserving what we have here, he's trying to get to Mars and the [00:20:00] medicine told me there's nothing we need on Mars to live.
It's already here for us. And part of that law of nature is knowing that we come from nature and like I spoke about at the beginning, like the separation of humans from nature is one of the main catalysts for the problems that we're facing today. We get more and more separated and, especially kids these days, like they, they don't go out and play a lot and, so they're even getting it younger now.
And so the medicine brings us back to nature and shows us that we're part of this soul. Like we're part of this whole organism of life. And and so in the Bwiti we talk about the love of nature is you can't abuse nature because if you abuse nature, you'll lose your happiness.
And and happiness is the goal of life. That's what we should strive for. Like our job here on this planet is to enjoy it and live and, let's talk about the, we the biggest thing that can ever happen to [00:21:00] anybody is to be given life like that. What's bigger than that? We don't know.
It can't, we can't register that. Maybe there is something on the other side, but like you said, we can't confirm it now because we're not there. And so the price to pay if we do abuse, nature is our own happiness. And there is people out there abusing nature and the ones that are, working on really big mining projects or in the Congo mining diamonds with kids or whatever it may be.
Like they're breaking that law. Knowing that those people, even though they may be really rich or something, they're not going to be happy because they're breaking that law. And then the other way we break that law is our own self abuse.
In saying that we come from nature ourselves. If we abuse nature, we'll lose our happiness. That goes on us as well. So whatever way we abuse ourselves within our own mind, our thoughts. There's all kinds of ways that we can abuse ourselves and when we do that, we're also [00:22:00] not gonna be happy.
And so we talk about that kind of being like the first step on the healing path is not abusing yourself anymore. Like we need to figure out, like if we're abusing ourselves, like that's the part that has to stop. Because if you don't stop that part, you're just not gonna have a foundation that you can abuse yourself and do all these other great things and heal your mind and your body.
Like you have to start with any sort of self abuse and usually that comes down to people's minds. Like the large majority of people that come here, are coming for some sort of depression or PTSD or anxiety or beliefs. And until they stop, however they abuse themselves with those thoughts, like they, they just need to concentrate on that first.
Lana Pribic: Why do you think people abuse themselves in the first place?
Levi Barker: Some of it is taught, unfortunately, a lot of our parents, did the best they could with what they had at the time, and they just didn't have the skills to teach us like how to manage our mind. And so in many ways, [00:23:00] coming here and Iboga.
And the Bwiti is like going to school for learning how to live again. And that's really what it is. They even talk about themselves like this is the school of life living, within nature and, being here and experiencing this opportunity. But a lot of it's learned, if kids are abused, they start thinking it's their fault.
Trying to get away from their own mind. So a lot of people that use substances is because they can't handle their own mind and just like sitting there with themselves. And and so usually, at least with substances, like the abuse gives them some temporary relief and then it comes raging back and amplifies it and it keeps coming.
But yeah. And we're also taught, like in the West the harder you can be on yourself and grind it and just get whatever done, like that's what's gonna make you happy. Just get through it, whether it's work or a job or whatever it may be. And that's just not the truth. Like we wanna do big things in life, but we don't have to abuse ourselves as we do it.
Yep.
Lana Pribic: [00:24:00] what have you found in life makes you happy? What actually makes you happy?
Levi Barker: I always think back to my daughter, of course, like having a kid
Lana Pribic: she's the best. I love her so much.
Levi Barker: Definitely
think of her. Definitely my family, although it didn't always used to be that way, let's see. Yeah, family iboga is a big part of it. Yeah, being able to, yeah, continually grow and understand the medicine more. And like the laws and codes within nature, the medicine just teaches that to you over time. Like the little simple things that you may not realize, like whenever you're.
Setting up or doing ceremony. Like sometimes the medicine will just tell you, do it this way. You shouldn't have that there or this there. But yeah, I'm super blessed to be able to provide the medicine and just see people transform their lives and go forward and live like that's very fulfilling.
But all of it had to start with me first and that was the long path. Like I didn't say at the beginning, but I [00:25:00] had seven years of working with the medicine or yeah, six, seven years of working with the medicine pretty consistently, like before I graduated and so I came from a very deep place.
Like I'm definitely another person now, was like a child, 15 years ago.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Which I always love hearing that part of your story because there's a lot of iboga providers now. So for people listening Levi's not like a shaman, like an iboga shaman. He's a iboga provider, is the correct term where you get, the blessing from your teacher to provide this medicine.
I dunno if there's anything you wanna add there, but there's a lot of
people
today serving this very powerful, very complex, very serious medicine after not that much training. It is hard to find someone who has been, trained for as long as you have.
Levi Barker: Yeah, no, I'm glad it went that way for me. Yeah. [00:26:00]
Lana Pribic: Yeah. That you, you didn't serve for six or seven years until
Levi Barker: Yep yep.
Lana Pribic: Actually
Levi Barker: one time Gary fell asleep during his ceremony and a friend that had been there a couple times was there, and I snuck one in and he was like, Hey, Levi, gimme some more medicine. I'm like, am I going to go wake up Gary? And Ended, ended up giving him a big. A big spoon and he was going all through the next day.
And but that was the only
Lana Pribic: was the only one. Yeah, Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. To get back to the law of nature when we, so the law of nature says when we abuse nature, we abuse ourselves. Does it work the other way around too? When we abuse ourselves, we're abusing nature.
Levi Barker: Yeah. Yep. Definitely. Yep. Same.
Same thing. Same thing. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: It's like the feeling I get, the sense that I get, the knowing that I get over and over again after Iboga is like, nature is our true nature and like living with nature is our true nature. And the more kind of in tune I can get with that, the happier I [00:27:00] will be because the more in alignment with my truth, I will be with what it means to be human.
Levi Barker: Yeah. Beautiful. No, that's a good way to put it.
Lana Pribic: Yeah.
Okay.
Levi Barker: nature.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. I remember just like being out here and oh my God, I just felt, I felt the land so much. Can you actually tell listeners a bit about this land, this property that you're in? It's just if you're watching on YouTube or do you wanna come watch on YouTube?
You can see the hills behind Levi. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about this land and the role that it plays in the retreats when people come here?
Levi Barker: Yeah. No, it is pretty special. And it was definitely, the medicine like pushed us here. And so during the pandemic we had to shut down our other retreat center that was in Guanacaste, and we'd been wanting to come south for quite a while. And so this was like the only, house that I could find with enough bedrooms.
Yeah, that wasn't like very expensive. And we [00:28:00] came here and yeah, a retired guy from Washington State was selling it, so he was here with him and his Costa Rican wife with nine bedrooms, just the two of 'em living here. And so he came down here about 15, 16 years ago and built this house. And so it's like, yeah, like five acres or so.
So not super huge. We're in the middle of a little pueblo on top of a mountain, so you can see all the mountains around you. So we're like, we're on a ridge in between another valley and circle of mountains. So it's really beautiful across the way. Like you can go out and see long distances and yeah, the medicine really likes it here.
This is definitely a spot where, Iboga could thrive in the right conditions down here. And yeah, I think that's a big part of it. You could serve Iboga be pretty successful anywhere, I think, the right, right setting, but I think it amps it up for sure. Being here.
Lana Pribic: I couldn't like I remember when I was in the medicine, I was thinking like, I can't imagine having this experience anywhere [00:29:00] else.
Levi Barker: uhhuh.
Lana Pribic: It's just so
beau. It's the perfect place to experience this medicine.
Levi Barker: Yeah. Thanks. I'm glad. I'm glad you like it. Yeah, no, we are really blessed to find it and we, yeah, we saw, and it was the only place that we looked at, and then two weeks later we were here.
Lana Pribic: Can you tell people about how you knew it was the right place?
Levi Barker: Yes. So there was definitely some different signs, but as we were walking around the property the first or second day there's these little. Black and red birds that live in the area. And that's two of the main colors in, in, in the Bwiti and Missoko based Bwiti traditions.
And and so yeah, I saw those guys flying around and yeah, so I was like, this is the spot.
Lana Pribic: did they have the white beak too though, don't they?
Levi Barker: Do they have a white beak? Maybe? They might, yeah, they might. And then also another thing that gets that showed me it was the right one. If you look, the shape of the house is like the, a chana, like the [00:30:00] inkin cross or the Anden cross.
Anden cross. And and so yeah, it's that exact shape, which is really unique for a house. Like it's a unique
Lana Pribic: is a Unique house
and like the space just works so perfectly for what you're doing here and yeah, it's, this is one of my favorite places to be for sure. I feel so peaceful when I'm here and been here for about two weeks now, and I just, I feel like a different person.
Levi Barker: Yeah.
Nice, nice.
Lana Pribic: So peaceful. There's no traffic noise, which I love.
Levi Barker: Uhhuh.
Lana Pribic: No airplanes,
Levi Barker: too, once you
Lana Pribic: just birds all day.
Levi Barker: Yeah. Yeah. One thing that's nice about here is like essentially the two open areas on each floor, like all the rooms are separated around it. So it's like each person has their own little space that's They
Lana Pribic: Their own quarters.
Yeah.
Levi Barker: Yep. Yeah. They're not like, besides, those two rooms aren't really connected, none of them. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: Yeah.
I was so worried about coming here and being around a lot of people because I'm so sensitive to noise and Yeah, it was incredible. Okay, do you [00:31:00] wanna talk a little bit about, cuz listeners have heard about my experience from me.
Do you wanna talk a little bit about what that was like from your perspective and maybe do some, yeah. Talk a little bit about the integration and things like that. So people who are listening and wanting to come, maybe they can get a better sense of kind of the long term game of doing this medicine.
Levi Barker: Yeah. What I saw in you, it was like cleansing your nervous system. First, like you talked about your story growing up and you know what, you had to go through there. And so yeah, that, when that happens at a young age, it just continues on and becomes the norm.
So yeah, it knew the medicine was gonna work out your nervous system first, and for those people that you know, and a lot of people need to clean out their nervous system coming here. And for those of you that you know, maybe haven't had iboga, it actually intensifies all of your senses, as you're going through the experience.
So [00:32:00] it's it, everything just amplified to the max, your site your hearing especially. And so I knew you had to, would go through that, but then even the next day yeah, you went very deep on that first one and yeah,
Lana Pribic: I remember walking out of the room that we're in right now and I was in the middle of it, and I think you had just shown up to the house.
After your sleep and I was like, I hear Levi.
Levi Barker: and
Lana Pribic: I need to go hug him and say thank you to him.
And I
think I was like in tears and I came out and I was like, thank you so much.
Like I have access to the voice of truth and
it's just
telling me everything.
Levi Barker: Yeah. And
Lana Pribic: Yeah. I went really deep that discovery day.
Levi Barker: Yeah. And what was it that you wrote down? You wrote down something about nature, right?
Lana Pribic: Yeah, the first thing I wrote down, sitting on this bed after I purged and everything started to clear up. It was like, get your journal out and write this down. It was like, nature is the answer.
Levi Barker: That's right. Nature is the answer
Lana Pribic: is
the
answer. Yeah.
Levi Barker: [00:33:00] Yeah.
Lana Pribic: Yeah.
Levi Barker: Yeah. That can go pretty deep. That one there
Lana Pribic: That's like a lifetime of integration,
Levi Barker: Uhhuh,
Lana Pribic: Uhhuh, that's like a lifetime of integrating and looking for answers in nature. Like I was just out there on the hammock the other day and I'm really calling in like romantic love right now. And I was watching The Birds and I was like watching one of them like singing the bird song to call their like, their beloved other Bird over.
And I was like, wow. Yeah. Like you have to put out your song, you, along with Iboga, like being on the hunt for what you want in life, but you have to put yourself out there and put that out there so that someone can find you and if you love someone, tell them you love them. And yeah, it's just, it's endless.
The lessons are endless. Yeah.
Levi Barker: Yeah. Yeah. And one of the benefits too of iboga is as you start forming a relationship, like you're gonna get a very early sense on if this can work or not, and so rather than having to spend a lot of time [00:34:00] and getting in there, like the medicine definitely will give you the intuition on if somebody's right for you,
Lana Pribic: oh, okay. Yeah. You mean in terms of romantic partnership? Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, you made a really nice comment at the beginning of our interview about you see some changes in me. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Levi Barker: Yeah. It's bigger than words, but Yeah, definitely a lot calmer. Like I see a lot of the like just kind of stress kind of washed off your, your face, Yeah, just much brighter.
And I can just tell you're really living it, you know what I mean? You've taken the lessons and the truth in, and I've been practicing the, these last six months and so I didn't see you in between that time even though we were in contact a bit. And yeah, no, you can tell you've just really done it and made the most of the opportunity and that's what, that's what we want everybody to do.
Some people are just more motivated than others and yeah, you really did it. Yeah. No, I see. You're like, yeah, ready to go to the moon.
Lana Pribic: [00:35:00] I've already been there
Levi Barker: Yeah, that's right.
Lana Pribic: several times. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. And my mom, it's always I feel different, I feel that Iboga was like the line in the sand for me completely. And it can be for so many people. And my mom has also noticed a lot of changes in me, and it is very nice to
Get that
confirmation from others too.
Even though I feel it within myself.
I think one of my, one of my favorite things about this medicine, and particularly the way you do it, is you said you really took the lessons with you and did the homework and integrated, I think like the Bwiti teachings give us so much to work with and like really a way to live.
And I love that at Iboga Wellness Center, you're like, the medicine and Bwiti is front and center, like you go to so many. Retreats in the plant medicine space and there's like workshops and yoga and breathwork and all this stuff. And [00:36:00] that can be great. I love that too. But I also really loved the really clear container
that you've created here.
Even your approach in ceremony, you're, I really got the sense that you know when to step in and it's not very often that you do, like you, it seems like you really allow the medicine to do the heavy lifting and then you're there if needed. Can you talk a little bit about your approach to ceremony and sharing this medicine with people and holding the retreats?
What do you see your role as being and what do you see the role of the medicine?
Levi Barker: Uhhuh? So I definitely view myself as like a, a. Assistant or like a team member of Iboga. And yeah, my job is to first when people are thinking about coming, just making sure that they're ready and really want it for themselves.
Make sure they're not coming to save their marriage or that can happen, but they, [00:37:00] they have to be the first in, in all of it. And yeah, if they have that man, the confidence in Iboga and it's gonna give them what they need is very high, as long as you get enough medicine into them. And dosing this medicine is, can be tricky cuz there's sometimes people can have a much of medicine, you can tell they're super high, but they're like, oh, nothing's going on.
And if you keep dosing them, they'll just go for more time. And so yeah, getting enough medicine into them is one of the most important parts of it. Sharing the tradition with them. Applying it to their life when applicable. And, keeping it in front of them.
Like what you need to do from here. And Yeah. And so we keep it pretty straightforward, like you said definitely get a lot of people to ask, do you guys do reiki there, or five m or, stuff like that. And yeah, so we keep it very direct in that way. And part of that is to get back to the simplicity of things because we start introducing a lot of other things, [00:38:00] other people putting their, their we do offer massage, but like other people healing other people it's not the time for it.
We're here to heal ourselves through the medicine. That's what's going to heal. And so like, uh, kind of getting distracted off of, This person is gonna do some healing work on me now. No you're the only one that can do it in the end. And yeah, I like all the other things as well.
But yeah, just keeping it very simple and direct, because that's what most people need. They think of life as very complicated. And so just getting it down to the foundational stuff and then building it from there.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. And even the ceremony space is very energetically clean. I wasn't, I noticed it during my journey, but being here as a helper now and observing the ceremony from that perspective, like the, it feels like a very protected and energetically clear space. I think we were talking about this a little bit the other day, where with [00:39:00] ayahuasca ceremonies, sometimes it can get like spiritually messy, like a lot of spirits and stuff come in.
I, I, it just feels very clean. Do you know what I mean? In the ceremony space?
Levi Barker: Yeah. Yeah. Thankfully that's the nature of Iboga. Like we keep talking about it, such an individual thing.
And so the space that you're in, Iboga gives you some, a little cushion around you, so everybody else isn't coming inside, unless they're like visitors from the journey. But, as far as the guests that are here and the people going through the experience, but yet, and that comes down to wanting to help people and keep them protected and, wanting the best for them because that, as we take the medicine those feelings and them feeling that, like all of that gets amplified to a degree.
And so if the provider isn't fully right, then that energy can definitely come through because they're the ones creating the space. And yeah, it just Yeah. Making people feel comfortable letting 'em know that we're there for them. [00:40:00] That's the biggest part of it all. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. It's so beautiful to to see people go through this process just like I did.
And to watch them discover the medicine and just feel how safe it is here and special it is here. And I think the land is a big part of it. It really holds us through the experience and. The fire and the smoke. And the,
What's the
smoke that you use in ceremony?
Levi Barker: Akunme torch.
Lana Pribic: Akume torch.
Yeah. So the fire and the ame torch are for
protection
Levi Barker: Yeah. Yeah. Similar like Ayahuasca or Palo Santo or Sage, Uhhuh. Yeah, we actually, that one we have now, we, that was the first one we have made before.
Yeah. Yeah. So we're pretty proud of
Lana Pribic: that.
Levi Barker: Oh, okay. Yeah, that's right. The
Lana Pribic: in North America or something.
maybe.
Levi Barker: Might be, yeah.
Lana Pribic: That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I love the fire ceremony. It's so fun to, to keep learning about it. So let's start winding things down. I wanna ask you about the future of this [00:41:00] medicine. It's obviously becoming much more popular and out there, and. I feel like that's, the medicine is in charge of that, in, in a way.
I feel like these master plan teachers know when to reach more people. I don't know if you, I don't know if that resonates with you, but yeah. What are your thoughts around the future of Iboga and, expanding access and sharing this medicine with more people in a good way amidst some of the, sustainability issues that are talked about?
Levi Barker: Yeah. Yeah, there definitely a concern. But from what I'm seeing, a lot more people are growing iboga now in Gabon and other places. And iboga, even from three, four years old, you're not gonna get a lot of bark off of it, but it, it has the alkaloids, it'll, get you there.
And yeah, I know of quite a few people growing on him. So I think, that's part of Ibogas plan went from the pygmies to the other groups and tribes within the area of Gabon. And then it came, then [00:42:00] Moughenda brought it to Westerners, and now Westerners are going to the medicine and the healing is spreading.
And yeah, iboga definitely has like its timeline for releasing itself, okay.
Lana Pribic: Do you feel like if it. If the medicine like doesn't want to grow somewhere, it, it just won't. And if it wants to, it will. Let's Matt and I were talking about this the other day, or Hasi and I were talking about this the other day about yeah, if it wants to grow outside of Africa, it will, if it doesn't, it won't, it's up to the medicine.
Do you feel that?
Levi Barker: Yeah. Yeah. No. Iboga, yeah. It'll, the energy of the person planning the iboga is a big part of it. I'm pretty convinced if it's cultivated Iboga, if it's wild iboga, that's Even better,
Lana Pribic: the elephants.
Levi Barker: Yeah.
But we, yeah, we don't wanna go pulling all those things out of the ground. And thankfully, from one iboga fruit, you can many times get 20, 30 plants out of one, and yeah, it just wants to be in the right environment off. Obviously the conditions are an [00:43:00] important part of it, but it can be pretty picky.
But it's also pretty strong as well. It's tough to I've seen one before where the top got cut off of it, like the whole plan, just a little stem sticking up and started growing off again. And yeah, the, it'll be interesting to see as Iboga gets grown. Cause I know it's outside of Gabon and Congo and Cameroon and now Cameroon, now it be interesting to see just the energy.
The medicine, obviously the land gives energy and yeah, so it'd be interesting to see south American iboga and but I think in all of that, like definitely we need to pay respect to the Bwiti and the people that brought this to us. And so if anybody's out there growing it, they need to, donate or support some Bwiti people or, help pay for the kids' schooling or something like that.
So if we're, if people are out there growing iboga like yeah, you need to give back to 'em. Cuz they gave us the, one of the greatest gifts that can ever be given. [00:44:00] They could have just kept it to themselves and, but they didn't. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Basse.
Bussy.
Levi Barker: Yeah. Basse
see.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. So let's end on the Mongongo first of all, can you explain to people what the, this instrument is and the kind of role of it in the
Bwiti?
Levi Barker: Yeah, so there's an instrument called a Mongongo, which is like a mouth bow, and it looks like a bow and arrow. And they say it represents like the sound of water and there's different rhythms and ways of communicating through the Mongongo, but that's.
When you need to, go through ceremony, like through an initiation, you need a lot of that. And yeah, people talk about, it's probably the first non percussion instrument to ever be invented. So at some point, a pygmy hunter, sat down, had a stick and started hitting this stick on his bow, on the string of his bow made sound.
And then it, it grew from there. But yeah ancient instrument and yeah, we've actually been making our own Mongongos here [00:45:00] as well, which is good cuz yeah, it starts getting tough to get things shipped and stuff and so finding out ways where we can do it ourselves and Yes. Yeah, been practicing.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. And. You and James. So James is a, he's a facilitator here, is that what you would call him? Yeah, facilitator. You both have gotten really good over
Levi Barker: Yeah. Cool.
Lana Pribic: Not that I'm an expert, but it sounds very much more melodic and like s songs and not not so much just practicing anymore.
Yeah. Would you like to play a little bit for us and share with the
Levi Barker: Should I, again, play a little bit?
Lana Pribic: Okay, cool. And we'll we'll stick that recording in here.
And is there anything that, anything else that you wanna share with listeners about Iboga or just share about this medicine that, that feels important?
Levi Barker: Let's see. Yeah. Everybody needs to be called to it. Iboga isn't for everybody, and that's probably one good thing about like kind of the psychedelic pharma industry is things are gonna be made where, something in Iboga can [00:46:00] be distributed to somebody that would never come to Costa Rica or eat root bark or total alkaloid extract.
And yeah, just you gotta really make sure you're called one thing. I would say a lot of people think they have to get like in a really good state before they come oh, I'm not ready for that. I can work on myself and No, just as long as you have the want in there, like all the, a lot of the learning will happen here while you're here.
And so there's no like perfect spot to have this medicine. Yeah.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. And thank you for encouraging me to come a lot earlier than I wanted to because I don't know if you remember, but I was thinking of coming four months later or something and you were like, just come now. Life will be so much better after four months is a long time. To live like in the same way.
And I'm so happy I came when I did. So yeah, just wanna encourage people out there. If you are feeling cold but scared tune into yourself and listen to yourself. But how would you say people know they're really [00:47:00] being cold to a medicine
Levi Barker: It'll keep coming up for them, they'll keep thinking about it. They'll keep, looking into it more. Yeah they'll know.
And then they just have to be careful that if they know so what they want, the mind can then come in and, oh, it's dangerous or whatever.
But it,
Lana Pribic: yeah.
Levi Barker: yeah, that's something people should know as well for like psycho-spiritual experiences like we do here. Is as long, we do require medical questionnaire an electrocardiogram at some point, if you're in good shape, you can definitely have iboga. Where it gets trickier is when you, when people are doing iboga detoxes for a drug addiction and so that's where you gotta be much more careful cuz there's just so much more going on.
And so yeah. As you can see it on you and the people that come through, it's very healthy medicine. Like you're gonna see people phys, you're physically stronger immune wise, mentally your body's clean. Yeah,
Lana Pribic: I didn't get [00:48:00] sick all winter this year.
Levi Barker: Oh good. It
Lana Pribic: first winter that I didn't get sick and that was right.
Be right after
Iboga. so
who knows.
Levi Barker: Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. Like it, it definitely does something to the immune system.
Lana Pribic: Amazing. Thank you so much for your messages. So how can people get in touch with you, learn more about the wellness center and Yeah. Reach out to you?
Levi Barker: Yeah. Through iboga wellness.com and yeah, we have a contact form or we have quite a bit of content on the site for you to read through and so yeah, feel free to contact me through there.
Lana Pribic: Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much, Levi, for everything you're doing and for taking time to drop in with the audience today again.
Levi Barker: Cool. Thanks so much. Okay.
Lana Pribic: Basse.
